Any of you still use block planes to sweeten your miters on trim, instead of running back to the saw.
If so which planes do you use that you have found to work the best.
I used to use a low angle old Stanley, worked decent. As of today I use a Bullnose plane also made by Stanley. Small enough to fit in my back pocket.
Replies
I was taught that same technique Matt. It makes a lot of sense rather than running back to the saw for every shave.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I haven't seen any one around here do it since I was a little kid.
I leave my saw setup outside and most of the time I don't feel like running 2-3 flights of stairs to adjust a miter. Thats why I use a plane to clean them up. Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
You've hit on a favorite topic of mine.
I own about 10 block planes; most stay in my shop, but I carry 2 in my van at all times. The 2 in the van are both Records, which unfortunately is out of business.
Among those in my shop are a Lie-Nielson, and a Veritas, from Lee Valley. If I were to lose both Records, I'd keep the Veritas in my truck. Both the Lie-Nielson and the Veritas work equally well, and probably a little better than my Records.
But the Lie-Nielson just seems to be too nice to be banged aroung all day.
And yes, I do sweeten my miters with a block plane. I'm too lazy to keep walking back and forth to the chop saw.
I was cleaning up some casing today with my small shoulder plane and thought I should look into a nicer one. Mines a small Stanley that does the job, but doesn't have alot of adjustment.
I was looking at the Veitas Medium Shoulder Plane as a possible replacement. Looks like a very nice plane. I assume you have good experiences with Veritas planes? Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
Matt,Just noticed your FKA...I have that Veritas plane. It is a great performer. They also have a nice looking bullnose version. I use the shoulder plane a lot in the shop, and I do occasionally take it to the job if I know I'll need it. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49709&cat=1,41182,48945They're kind of pricey for everyday jobsite use.- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
I agree that they are pricey for everyday use. I might stick with what I have for now.
Like Shep it might be time to add to my collection soon. Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
The Veritas has a bunch of nice features that the older Stanleys, and Records, don't.
A thicker iron, more sensitive adjustments, setscrews in the body to keep the iron aligned,
I have the standard angle block right now. I'll probably buy the low angle sometime.
And the apron plane. Probably the Lie-Nielson skew block plane. Maybe the Lie-Nielson rabbet block plane.
I haven't bought a block plane in a couple of years. I think its time to add to my collection.
Matt,
I carry several planes on the truck & use them pretty much everyday- mostly lie nelsen. The two you are looking at are my least favorite in their line. The rabbet block plane does not have an adjustable mouth which is a pain. I prefer the shoulder plane. The skew block I use very seldom, but is idea for those times. The three I use nearly everyday are the low angle block, #62 low angle jack and med shoulder. I also use the right angle edge plane for removing saw marks. One guys opinion, may not be what you like.
I want both the rabbet and skew blocks not so much to use them,even tho I probably will; but just because they seem to be cool planes.
Like I said, I already have about 8-10 block planes, and a whole lot of other planes; at least 50 or 60 of them.
Hey, it's a cheaper addiction than drugs.
I use one constantly, and not just for miters. I really can't understand how guys can work without them. Maybe it's just a crutch for me...
I have three block planes I rotate into my bags as they get dull. A little bronze Lie-Nielsen, an old, old Stanley 60 1/2, and a Veritas apron plane. I strongly recommend the Veritas to anyone needing a plane. It's compact, has an excellent adjuster, is available with an A2 iron, and is ready to work right out of the box following a quick hone. I have thre or four other ones that stay in the shop.
One of the other plane I keep in the truck is a shoulder plane. Not an every day user, or even every week, but it sure is handy when I want it. I also have a set of Bunny planes in there.
I'll bust out the jack when I'm hanging doors and I've also been known to bring my homemade woodies out on certain jobs.
You can't ever have too many planes. I can think of three or four I want right now.
- Kitr
The interesting thing about planes is that they make a lot of jobs go fast, where setting up other tools would be time consuming. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
What is really interesting is how many guys feel like they absolutely have to use some tool that uses electricity when they can have a job finished before they spend the time to set up a power tool. So often I have something DONE while they are still rummaging around in the truck for the corded tool and running a cord to plug it into.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I do.
When I first started trimming I put a finish blade in a old Trademaster 12" compound I used to frame with. I was forever re-cutting miters for that perfect fit and block planing to get them even closer because I'm really anal about miters.
Then I bought a decent miter saw, DW 706, and everything became so much easier. I could cut trim for an entire house and have maybe 2 or 3 miters that needed a touch up or block planing.
Poor fitting miters were often caused by jambs sitting proud of the drywall. Hand planing the jambs flush to the drywall worked best for me. However, factory vinyl jambs were also common, back cutting the miters with a block plane was the only alternative.
Block plane was an old Stanley low angle, they were ridiculously expensive 10 years ago. The one I have now is a knock off, Gruetz or something, it works fine, side by side you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference at 1/3 the price of a Stanley.
Gord
Edited 12/6/2007 10:31 pm by gordsco
Yes, all the time. I have a two Stanley low angle block planes, one 6" and one 7". The 6" is my current favorite. Nothing fancy, but easy to use, adjustable throat, rugged and only about $40.
Chop, chop.
What's a block plane?
Chop.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11136&cookietest=1
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
LOL,
Chop chop
Hack Hack
Whack whackGiddoughtahere
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
still low angle stanley block plane.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Absolutely I use block planes to fit miters better. Like Shep I own many many planes, and must have about 6 block planes. I like to tune old ones and give them to a deserving person as a present.
My two that I carry in my tool tote are the Lie Nielson brass apron plane (my favorite), and the Lee Valley low angle adjustable block. Both are top of the line, and I keep 'em sharp enough to shave my face with.
I also have some nice Swedish wood rasps that I use on occasion.
The lie Nielson is the one though for sweetening miters. That thing fits into the palm of my hand like it was molded to it.
Piffin said it right about the hand tools. I end up using my planes and hand saws for many small jobs, oh, and I hand nail (trim) at times if I'm up on the third floor let's say and I have 3 pieces of shoe to install.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that still does it.
I currently jump back and forth between my old low angle Stanley with the adjustable throat, and the small Stanley shoulder plane which does great on end grain.
I also use a big Italian Rasp at times, it removes alot of stock pretty quick.
I was curious to see if any of you also did it, and which planes worked best for you guys.
One more thing, I am a deserving person in case you were wondering. :)
Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
Edited 12/7/2007 8:48 pm ET by MattSwanger
me too.Technique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Out of all the small planes I have I like using my Stanley #140 for cleaning the miters if need be. Size of a block plane but has a skewed iron and is good for rabbiting as well.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You guys have to adjust your miters??
:)
Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
"You guys have to adjust your miters?? "Not all the time , no. We 'sweeten' them because nature is curved and we live in an un-square world.You ever do renovation or restoration, new joined to old?'Nuff said.
I was jokeing about having to adjust miters. Guess that was missed.
What is this Swedish rasp that you use? I was looking at what was called a shinto rasp (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=12881). Would like to see how that would work for adjusting miters.Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
Ah....got it it. You're pretty good at the tongue-in-cheek to put it over on me. Usually I'm the sardonic one.
Use them all the time, usually have many on site. All old stanleys, restored and well shrpened. I collect them too (please don't tell my wife).
I use small blocks, as well as stanley #3's for trimming proud jambs in old remodels. Love the wush, wush sound of crisp shavings coming off a clear piece of pine.
Can I get on your list of deserving persons? I will send you my plane collection, which I have never been able to get working right.
I think this is a case of 'You have to be there.' I'm reasonably handy, have been working on old houses for years with some success, but have never become adept with planes, in spite of reading all the books.
My grandfather had a huge collection of tools, & built a lot of furniture, but he would never teach me, because of the girl factor.
"but he would never teach me, because of the girl factor."Man, what a shame. I'm sure he was a good guy but...well, different generations I guess.Just curious, what planes do you have?
She has a Cessna, a Piper and 3 Wrights...LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Alas, no. Does it count that my late DH took flying lessons, until he got too blind?
Sure it counts.
I feel everyone expected to drive a car well, oughtta be required to have a few flying lesssons first, the education would make them safer drivers.
Funny, in another thread, I am sending a few planes to our new youngest member here, appears as tho the planes will be flying!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
My first time up was as a kid in a Piper Cub on a windy day. You don't think that was ride?! I can still feel my stomach dropping with those pockets of air.
Dad had a friend who flew Gliders, man..I was maybe 8 or 9 and he took me along...I dunno what was worse, the eeerie silence or the dips and turns.
Just seeing the tow plane line cut loose, almost had me crying. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
I'll look when I get home & let you know tomorrow.
I know there are a bunch of Stanleys - I'm pretty sure that there are no exotic or spectacular ones, but 2 or 3 block planes - mostly from yard sales.
What I really need, besides a working block plane, is a scrub plane, for the three-hundred-year-old house. There are a couple of batten doors, with just subtle scrub marks, that I want to copy.
I am about to email you the list - too dreary & boring to clutter up the thread!
I use a block plane all the time. Not usually for miters though, too easy to just step over to the chop saw and take a hair off with that.
Mostly I use a low-angle adjustable mouth Stanley. I used to have a Lie Nielson, not the all-brass one but the one that looks like a stanley but works oh so much sweeter. It got stolen when a kid I was trying to help along decided he wanted to quit and took my plane with him. I've been thinking about getting the all-brass (or bronze?) one to replace it.
Also have the LN skew rabbet planes. They stay in their box. My Stanley shoulder plane comes along with me to job sites and gets a surprising amount of use.
I have a ton (probably 40 or so) planes, from very old to fairly new. One of my favorite to use is a Record 14" jointer plane. When it's tuned up that thing just sings and turns up the prettiest shavings.
I guess now that we have found out this is still a common practice, lets move the discussion to techniques.
I like to start with the plane at the short part of the miter and move to the long. Angled to the back of the casing. A few passes later the joint is tight with out 50 nails in it.
I use the rasp the same way, the grain tears out much less going short to long for me with both the rasp and plane.
How do you guys like to sharpen and true your planes? Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
How do you guys like to sharpen and true your planes?
Tried about every way there is, but settled on hollow grind with aluminum oxide wheel, followed by hand-lapping on a medium diamond stone, front and back (back side needs to be perfecly flat and mirror finish!), followed by a leather strop with aluminum oxide powder. If I can turn up shavings by dragging the tip across my thumbnail it's sharp. Have shaved with it but if it's not quite sharp yet it can hurt.
The diamond stone comes with me to jobs to fine-tune irons and chisels. Strop with my leathery palm.
The other day I got that "got to have it" feeling while looking at a Tormek Supergrind. Anyone used one?
I was looking at a Delta sharpening center a couple of weeks ago and starting googling things.
Turns out the Delta is garbage.
The Tormek looks like the real deal; whatsit, about a grand?[email protected]
Never used one, but sure know thatfeeling..LOL
Hey we seem to sharpen similarly, I use a belt sander often ( the Ridgid Oscillating is perfect) or the drum for a slight hollow, I have only a 6" pedestal grinder and they are too fast for most delicate jobs.
The belt does a wonderful job with out so much heat, and variable hollowgrinds are often best, very hollow for a super fine edge tool, and flatter for durable yet not so razor edges.
For them nail hitting brute force ugly plastic handles site chisels, I have used a cinder block to get an edge back..(G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
LOL I've done the cinder block sharpening too!
Don't have an oscillating spindle sander but I can see that working great.
I have a 6" pedestal grinder with a white wheel. It is too fast, but I made a little sliding table to set the iron or chisel on. Going back and forth a few times then going to another tool while the first one cools down in a cup of water works pretty well.
Man I hate to see that blue dot when it does overheat though.
You NEED to get that sander. Really, just uh, don't have the vacuume hooked when grinding metal. (G)
As soon as I unpacked it and putzed around a little I got online and ordered 5 of each belt in like 40G through 220G and 5 of each spindle cover ( there is 5 sizes I think) in the same grits..yeah, it all cost MORE than the machine ( I order from Klingspor) but Boy Howdy, what a versatile and great set up.
Don't chintz out on the best abrasives you afford, it really makes a difference from the junk they send with it.
Only complaint I have is, I wish the oscillation was selectable, sometimes I don't want to get hypnotized by the damm thing, and if you are sanding multiple parts over a period of time, you really can get zoned out and get vertigo..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
"The other day I got that "got to have it" feeling while looking at a Tormek Supergrind."It's my next tool purchase. A framer/woodworker I sometimes see and work with pretty much has convinced me. I need fast and convenient and it seems that the Tormek is just that.I'll probably get it in about a month when the cabin fever is reaching it's zenith.
Boss Hog has a Tormek. He likes it.
Here's a post I did once where someone asked me if I liked my Tormek:http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=95551.11
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interests. [Adam Smith, "The Wealth of Nations"]
Thanks Boss. Have you found a need for all the add-on accessories?
I only use the cisel (plane iron) jig, the knife jig, and the axe jig. I don't use a lathe, so I have no use for the really oddball stuff. I thought about the planer knife jig, but it's like $120. I can buy a lot of planer knives for that.I have been eyeing the scissor jig, as I think that would be handy sometimes.
See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Frederic Bastiat's test for immoral government acts
What! No toenail clipper jig?!
Flat is the word when it comes to planes. Flat sole and flat backside of the iron..if either aint, no joy.
I sharpen onsite with a diamond "stone" and spit, strop on what ever is on my foot, like the flat leather side of the boot instep.
At the homeshop, I sharpen with either a ceramic and spit, oil stone and oil, sandpaer on glass, or water stones..depends on how much stuff I am sharpening, and how dull..I never sharpen the same way twice it seems.
The best is the stopping tho' like a barber..I made a paddle 3" wide by about 16" long, leather (thick cowhide) both sides one side is "hair side" out, other side the fuzzy side. I Charge the strop with Red Rouge on the fuzzy side and finish the stopping on the smoothe side, a spritz of wd-40 now and again keeps the leather from drying out too bad.
Missing that step is like Brushing and not flossing.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Do you round the edges of your block plane iron? I don't but I've seen guys who do.
Nope, only do that on the #3,#4,#5and #7 planes, when flattening. A block plane is almost never cutting full iron width, so it is not needed IMO. And if it has to fill that job, skewing it and backing off the trailing edge a bit, will have it not leave tracks.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Matt, Enjoyed the thread,My favorite, the Stanley 0601/2 with a Hock (?) blade.For sharpening,Oil stones, a Norton (1 side medium 1 side fine, the orange and gray one)for shaping and sharpening and a hard white Arkansas stone for a razor finish.A bit of a learning curve(just like anything else), but for a haul around in your truck, on the job site leave, you can't beat them, a squirt of WD-40 and you are good to go. Now what ever you do, DON'T(he he he!), DO NOT get sucked into the ...............Water stones,glass plates and sand paper,exspensivemachines and, ummmmm, oh yes Diamond plates.Total waste of time and money... ... and who ever uses them ain't no real carpenters anyways. DAVE(;~0>
PS.
The best way to clean a Norton oil stone;
build a good hot fire ,Hotter the better, throw the stone into it , keep the fire going for a while,leave the stone in the fire and let the fire burn itself out. Next day take the stone out and let cool if still hot. Throw it back in the truck and get to work.
"How do you guys like to sharpen and true your planes? "Right now I hollow grind on a 11/2" wide white "cool stone" on a regular 6" grinder. I do that to set the angle, then I secondary bevel starting at 1000 and go up to my 8000 Norton water stone. I use the naguara stone on the final passes. When the secondary bevel is all that needs touching up, I start out with the diamond stones.I have a great guide from Lee Valley for chisel & plane irons that keeps things square and true to angle.I flatten with either diamond stones or wet paper on 1/4" glass, either one works fine. I like to go right up to a mirror finish on the backside even though it's not totally necessary.Even with all the guides etc, sharpening is still a finesse thing that takes a while to get. I often do it by feel when I'm out on the job. I like to drag the sharpened iron or chisel across the pad of my wet thumb or my lips and when I can feel no ridge of any kind from either side, I know it's sharp.
This thread is a real joy for me. Over the years I run into fewer and fewer guys who either have or know how to use ANY hand tools. The ones I do see are cheap and in poor condition, so they don't use them. There are many ways to sharpen your tools- don't get caught up in gizmos. I personaly don't like the tormak, but if it works for you- great. I am a self confessed handtool junkie. I have waaaay too many chisels, planes, card scrapers and hand saws just to get the job done, but they make the job easier, faster and better than if I just used a chopsaw & nailgun.
I figured some of you might like this topic, I started it thinking about a new hand plane. Then yesterday I was using my Stanley to clean up some material I had pulled the nails out of the back side when the guy that works with me started giving me ####.
He kept poking and going at me saying it was an unnecessary step. Until he tried to nail some on with out planing it down. The stock rolled around and he knew exactly why I was doing it.
I am not that old, but I have begun to see that power tools have taken away that feeling you get really working with wood, not just cutting it and nailing it. It's not the same and those who don't are missing out in a fun part of the old process.
That guy grabbed my plane and wanted to learn how to use one, I am no teacher when it comes to it. Hard to explain "feel". He got really excited when he peeled off his first ribbon and I think he's hooked.
I will probably pass on my old Stanley to him and move on to something new. So the suggestions on new planes are welcome. As are the sharpening equipment suggestions.
My sharpening skills are well below average and thats why I wanted to turn the thread into something I could improve on and possibly pass onto another who wants to learn an old method.
Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
This is a bit off topic but I also use a "sanding " block made up out of scrap that will slip tightly inside a sanding belt belt for things like removing that wood that has broken away on the back side of trim. I keep 3 grits wrapped around these block in my tool kit . Good also for minor trim adjustments, but no where near as nice to the senses as a plane is. Ok back to real tools now.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I also keep a sanding block in my truck, it's just a 120 grit belt sander belt. I slide that belt over the length of a 2x4. I can't remember the exact length. I cut the 2x a little short and tighten the belt with 2 opposing shims.
Amish belt sander, works very good. Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
Matt,If you're looking for a no frills, cheap sharpening setup it's hard to beat a King 1000/6000 stone. Less than 25 bucks and will last for years. You can add a honing guide if you are inclined. The original Veritas is nice. I go free hand because that's how I was taught. I do have a really cool side clamping honing guide I use on my really small Japanese chisels> Beautifully machined brass and stainless.I use a white Norton wheel on a regular speed, 6" grinder. If you have a light touch, no problems and the grinders are cheap.I have all kinds of sharpening stones. I keep a DMT double sided diamond stone in the truck. Great stone, no maintenance and it produces an edge good enough for all but the fussiest finish carpentry. I love my Arkansas stones. The have a great feel, give a lot of "feedback" while honing. I think they are easy to learn on, but good ones are expensive unless you can find them at estate sales. I might be romanticizing it, but they seem to work the best on my vintage tools. Plus, WD40 and 3-in-1 oil are like mother's milk to me. I love the smell. I also have a tupperware full of waterstones. They're fast and give a great edge, but require more care. Like I said before, a King 1000/6000 will produce incredible results. I also have an 800 grit, a 4000 grit and an 8000 grit, plus a couple natural stones. I use the waterstones the most because they are fast and I tend to hone 6 or 8 chisels and 3 or four block plane irons all at once.I've never liked the Tormek. Seemed expensive and rounds over the edges of your tools. It does produce very serviceable results and if that's what it takes to get a guy or gal using hand tools, I'm all for it.Chisels, planes, and saws are part of the mystique and magic of our craft, collective knowledge and skill passed down over generations. I feel lucky every time I use mine and even more so when some dude says "Wow, can I try that?" Seems like most of them end up buying one and wanting to learn how to sharpen it.Those little things make me happy to be a carpenter and a woodworker.- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Edited 12/9/2007 12:17 am by vanderpooch
Considering the hours I have into hand sharpening (probably into the hundreds) the price of the Tormek doesn't seem terrible, if it works well.
I have zero experience using one though. What do you mean it rounds over the edges?
Mike,I always felt that you really couldn't produce an edge that was two flat planes with the soft polishing wheel. It tends to dub the edges over a bit. Don't get me wrong, the machine works fine. I think I would still want to do the final hone on stones though, so why drop the $350 or whatever it costs. The attachments for jointer knives, etc are very appealing.If I were going mechanized, I'd probably look at a Lap Sharp setup or the Veritas setup. Both use a hard, flat honing plate which would be really nice for getting the backs of chisels and plane irons dead flat. There's also one called Worksharp I'd like to check out. You present the edge from below the plate, which is perforated so you can see the edge itself.Just my two cents. If someone gave me a Tormek I'm sure I'd be a happy guy...- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
>>> I have waaaay too many chisels, planes...
Naaah, how could that possibly be?
Please reconsider this way of thinking.
I used to use the sandpaper-with-glass "scary sharp" method.Now I use waterstones for all my planes and chisels. Whether doing "scary sharp" with paper, or "even scarier sharper" with the stones, I have come to believe that the soul of a sharp edge lies in its honed-totally-flat-to-a-mirror-finish back side.My newest plane is the Lee Valley medium shoulder rebate plane. What a chunk of iron. Perfect for fitting tenons to mortises.
How do like that plane? Thats the one I was looking at.
I bet it's sweet. Shoulder rebate planes seem to cut end grain alot better than a regular low angle plane.
Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
Looking at? Stop looking and buy yourself a Christmas present. Get either that one or the Clifton of about the same size. Either will do precision paring, just a couple thou at a swipe.
I looked at the Clifton lines of planes and holy sticker shock Batman! Costly enough to the point where I might not take it to the job site.
I am sure they are worth it for the everyday woodworker. Being at mostly amature status I'll look at cheaper options until I get a better feel for the care of them. Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
I recently saw the price of the Cliftons. Its gone up a lot.
I'd rather buy Lie-Nielson planes. And I have.
Thats what I thought too, they are probably worth it but I can't see myself needing a plane with that high a price tag.
I have looked at the Neilsons and I think I've picked out a winner. Woods favorite carpenter
FKA- Stilletto
That's a sweet plane. I don't own it but a friend of mine does. The Lee A-2 irons are great.My shoulder is an old Stanley #93, a very good and effective tool.