I am replacing a deck and have narrowed it down to two materials for the deck boards. Ipe and Bulletwood (Massaranduba). Both are Brazillian hard woods. One wood supplier tells me that the IPE is not as good as the bullettwood (he sells the Bullettwood) the other tells me that the Ipe is better. I am concerned about how they will look in 5 years. Has anybody used either one? Were you happy with the results? I live in Cincinnati where the Humidity is high.
Replies
I have used Ipe... I think it is the best deck wood there is. A huge deck I did 15 years ago is still holding up and still looks good! This owner does have a full time maintainance guy though... Keeps it clean and coats it with deck sealer every year. He just likes the "oiled" almost shiny look on his decks. He built his boat dock with Ipe too.
It is expensive... damn hard stuff too... I had to pre-drill EVERY screw hole in the whole deck! I used stainless deck screws... over a GRAND in screws alone! I have been told you can also use high quality marine Silicon Bronze screws as well, if you don't like the bright look of stainless. They cost about the same.
By the way... The boardwalk at Atlantic City is Ipe... Prolly can't get a better test than that.
Thanks Brick. Is the Ipe slippery when it is wet?
"I have been told you can also use high quality marine Silicon Bronze screws as well,"
Brick,
I didn't know they made them, but I have machined parts out of that mtrl, and I can attest that it is though hard stuff. I hate having to use stainless fasteners because they snap and the heads strip so easily compared to hardened all purpose screws. The newer galvanized and triple coated deck screws should also not be dismissed. The ones I used in my deck look like new after over ten years.
Jon
One word: ImpactDriver<G>
You won't believe how it handles stainless screws, or any other screw for that matter!
And, silicone bronze screws are the fastener of choice for boats... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Even so - you still want to drill at the ends to prevent splitting.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you're using Ipe, best pre-drill and countersink for every screw you're putting in. Those high heads'll get hot on yer hooves<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Like "jpainter" said; If you drill the right size pilot holes... no problem snapping off screws. Also, the square drive screws I get from McFealy's don't cam out... I hate philips... try not to use them for anything, including cabinet work. --- BRICK
"They say that there is a fine line between genius and insanity. I like to color outside the lines...and then eat the crayons." ~ Me
Like "jpainter" said; If you drill the right size pilot holes... no problem snapping off screws."
Brick,
And If you hit a hard spot or a knot? Or is JP advocating over sizing the hole and increasing strip-out in the softer sections to deal with the snapping in the harder ones? I'd say I snap 1% to 2% of SS screws. I rarely snap any other type other than Piffin screws.
Jon
Here's the deal on screws. First, I drilled the 3/8" hole for the plug with a forstner bit in a handheld drill. Then, I drill an oversize whole through the ipe decking but NOT touching the PT joist underneath. I think I used a 13/16" bit if memory serves me. This means that the screw shank totally clears the ipe and only the head holds. I used Woodpecker SS screws from Swan Secure, but any high quality SS screw would be fine. No pilot hole is required in the soft ACQ PT pine. In this entire deck I did not have any cam-outs or breaks at all. I also needed only one driver bit for the whole operation.
I believe the folks having troubles with SS screws are causing the screw threads to get caught between the decking and the joist, which stresses the screw until it snaps or cams out. You really want nothing but the head of the screw touching the decking.
J Painter
I think I used a 13/16" bit if memory serves me. I hope your memory is slipping...do you mean a 3/16 hole?...13/16 is more than a quarter inch.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Did you use 3/4" IPE? I have 16" joist spacing and my research says 3/4 is fine but I would hate to get this done and have it be spongy. Any thoughts?
you CAN go to 24'' with 3/4'' Ipe..it's that stiff.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Tom:
You can do very big spans with this stuff. However, I framed with 16" centers and used 5/4 ipe. Actual dimension is 1 inch. That said, I screwed on 32" centers and relied on 3m 5200 Marine adhesive to hold down the decking on the in-between joists. It's a rock. I wish my house were this solid. If figured a few extra joists were worth the money for a solid deck.
J Painter
I go to 19-3/16" OC for Ipe`
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ed:
LOL! Yeah, okay, well maybe I can drill better than I can type, huh? Yes, 3/16.
J Painter
Knots? ...Last Ipe I got didn't have any! --- BRICK
"They say that there is a fine line between genius and insanity. I like to color outside the lines...and then eat the crayons." ~ Me
Tom:
I'm in the middle of building a deck with ipe. It is simply the most durable wood decking available, assuming it is installed correctly.
I've installed mine with face screws and plugs, plus I have used marine adhesive (3m 5200) between the joists and the decking. The screws will not cam out or break if you size the hole in the ipe correctly. Each end cut in the ipe must be sealed quickly with wax (anchor seal) to prevent splitting and checking. The decking will weather to a silver grey if you use a non-uv inhibited sealer such as seasonite. It is not slippery. It will certainly hold up past your 5 year hopes, and probably last longer than you!
I've attached a couple pictures.
J Painter
Edited 6/24/2004 12:40 pm ET by jpainter
J - in the deckingcurve picture, it looks like every other board is a different color. How you do dat?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Ed:
Someone else asked me that too-- the color difference is just a fluke of the photograph. In real life the color looks about the same on each board. I guess the reflection of the light on the wet boards caused that.
J Painter
Very nice deck. What kind of glue did you use for the plugs and how get them flush with the deck?
I really like the curved junction. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
The plugs are glued in with gorilla glue. After playing around I finally settled on the easiest way to get the plugs down. I took a belt sander with 120 grit paper to each plug and got it near flush. Then I rented an orbiting floor sander with 100 grit paper and did two passes on the whole deck. Took a couple hours. The results were good.
As someone else mentioned, the color is nice as it is, but I just feel it will be a losing battle trying to keep it that way. I'll let it weather to the natural silver gray and be over with it. The railing and posts will be painted white.
J Painter
Good job!
That high gloss on yours makes it look slippery as snot on a glass doorknob.
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Piffin:
The gloss is just from the water on the boards-- I had just hosed off the sawdust when I took those pictures. My intention is to let it weather to the natural silver grey. The seasonite sealer I used should allow that to happen.
J Painter
Thanks for the pictures. Beautiful deck.
The lumber company is really pushing the fasteners that require a biscuit groove and do not show. I think that I will use stainless screws with counter sunk holes. I also want to retain the original color so I am going to look for a sealer that retains that will retain the color.
Those hidden fasteners are called EB-TYs but I have heard from some here that they do not perform satisfactorily over a long time.
Penofin makes an oil specificly for exotic tropical hardwoods with 99% claimed UV protection
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin:
For those that do want to use the clip system, there is a competitor to the EB-TY system called the "ipe-clip" that is much stronger. See:
http://www.advantagelumber.com/ipeclip.htm
In my case the circle was going to require so many face screws anyway that I decided against the system. The face screws were painstaking, but I think I made the right decision.
J Painter
Painter
The deck looks great, I would have a hard time letting it turn grey. Looks like a nice mahogany boat color.
Doug
Tom,
I build outdoor furniture and I find ipe to be much more stable than massaranduba. It maintains it's color better as well. I would definitely go with ipe.
Steve
Thanks Steve. Your information finalizes my search. I am ordering the IPE today.