Estimating other trades gives me a head ache. I’ve got additions to build this year after a long time just doing small carpentry work. Trouble is most of the guys (plumber, electricians, etc.) I know have retired or expired. So I’m a bit out of the loop.
If you could spare an Excel sheet you use for estimating (Labor Rate, material, Mark up ) for…
- Plumbing – rough in basics
- Foundations -first shovel to back fill (Admittedly my weakest point.)
- Electrical – rough in basics
- Drywallers – as a sub contractor
… I’ll put your name up for saint hood.
THANKS! in advance.
Come to think about it, maybe a data base on of this sort on this site might be handy. Hmmmmmmm.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much.
Replies
You are not safe estimating like that. I use two plumbers... one is less, one is more, one does this, one does that... and if I get a third one I'll get different prices from him too. For all of these trades you are better off estimating after a brief phone call to the sub you want to use.
If you can't take the time to get a price from a sub before you contract with the owner, prepare to get bent over.
I really think that imposing on some guys time to come out and look at a job that's not under contract yet stinks. It happens to me and you all I'll bet. Well, I thought If you don't ask, you don't get. So I came here looking for a few good men that may volunteer. Semper Fi ! A lot of threads start with the phrase " What would you charge for.." There isn't any driving involved to a job sight in this forum, just click, type, paste during down time.
As for it 'Not being safe to estimate this way' I was hoping to get rule of thumb or averages that I could plug in. I'd never contract with a customer at an absolute cost for another tradesmen's work. Just enough info to tell the customer what the price range is for that trade for his/her project. The contracts I write are for producing the best quality product within the customer's budget written with a lot of room for me to maneuver if the estimate was off. (When the jobs all carpentry I'll usually finish under budget and still make good money.) It also restricts the HO from slipping in an expensive item that was not in the estimate.
So, when I asked,"Buddy, can you spare a spreadsheet?" I was expecting generic, stripped down versions from several sources of the Excel sheets you guys use every day. i.e. A full foundation for an addition cost "X" per foot.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?
I ball park subs at best. I never speak for them. Last time I did that I ended up paying out myself, that hurt.
I bring in close or high estimate. When I secure the job I bring the subs out. We dial in the price and if the client is on board we go. This way I waste less peoples time and am able to be more accurate.
The bottom line is, anyone going by exact bottom dollar aint looking for me. I provide quality and service afterwards should a problem arise. I dont want to be the cheapest. I want to be the best.
Its your home, you really want the cheapest guy working on it?
Email me your street addy, and I'll send you a collection of SS's.
Right after I send them to Blueeyeddevil.
SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
What'd I get, bumped?<G> "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
I don't have your address.SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
You'd let a little thing like that get in our way?<G>PS You should also have mail "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
I don't know what SS's are, seriously. But I have a lumber price spreadsheet I could trade that's only a month old.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?
SS is short for SpreadSheet :)
Thought so. It's just that some guys abbreviate unapproved language amd my shorthand isn't the best.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?
Edited 2/6/2007 4:32 am ET by CarpentrySpecialist
Sam, I appreciate your thoughts about sending me the spreadsheets, but I don't know if you'll have to go to that much trouble. I think I"ve learned to make my own. I recently spent some considerable time writing one for the school project and I've come to the conclusion that most spreadsheets are probably only good for the authors. For the most part, one would have to know how to write the spreadsheets to make them usuable.
I do appreciate your offer though, but I don't want to put you out.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
chris...you are bidding as the GC , right ?
i would never bid a job for my subs without getting their price....or at least their estimate... not mine.. and not something from a spreadsheet
if you are doing very high dollar work, you can bid from spreadsheets, then when you have the contract you can sell the jobs to the subs, lots of commercial work is done this way
as a GC doing lot's of remodel workand some new construction... i work with the same subs all the time... i have to have their price... not my guess
what if i guess wrong ? either i get the job and i don't have enough money for the subs.... or i bid it too high and they never get achance to give me a price
they count on me to win the jobs.. i count on them to price their work.. as specialists they can do it faster and better than me.. in short, they are a resource, an asset....
i use my resources..... spreadsheet prices are not going to be right... they'll be high .. or low....why not flip a coin ?
I start out with a ball park range on what a project should cost. If they still want me to go ahead with a price I call my subs and we get accurate pricing. It's not at all uncomon for me to meet at the site with them one or two times to put the bid together. Every one knows this is how it works with my projects and they build the time spent into their pricing. I am 99% commercial any more and most of my competition does bid from spreadsheets or books like R.S. Means. When I meet with the prospective client I make it clear ( and so do the architechts that recomend me) I do site inspections & give accurate quotes. Rarely do I just bid off the prints as happens so often in commercial work. This is one of the things that differentiate me from my "competition". My closing rate is about 1 in 6. I'm ok with that as I try to maintain a 15% or better profit and also look for customers who pay on time & I can work with. I'm not above jacking a price up if I expect some one to be difficult.
You're in a different place in that you GC all the time as apposed my goal of doing a few addition this year plus the 1 / 2 day T&M stuff. You do make good point for someone in a like Biz.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?
i didn't know you were doing T&M.. which makes a large difference
do your subs know you're doing T&M ?.. that also makes a large differenceMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I believe in open lines of communication.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?
Here's what mine looks like. All the formulas came from Hometech and they make a book for every part of the US including CT I'm sure. I hope this helps. Definately would be a good idea for you to spend some time on the Home Tech website. I like copying their formulas into my SS and then adjusting from my data mining in QuickBooks. They do also have an on-line estimating program that you can work with to try it out. The information is very good. I always pitch my jobs at three quality levels so the owner gets the message that their desires drive the cost of the job more than the blueprint.
I hope this is helpful.
Michael
Michael, thank you. I'll give Home Tech a try.
"I always pitch my jobs at three quality levels" I had that in mind. Basically, I'm a T&M guy and GC as a cost plus % with me doing the carpentry at my regular rate. Set a budget for the HO that has room for a few extra bells and whistles, then try to come in under budget. So I guess what I'm looking for is BUDGET #'s. I'll put your sheet to good use.
Thanks again.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?
Chris given your from CT you might want to check out these estimatior Manuals from RemodelMAX. I've recently been looking at and working with some data from RemodelMax think it's a real good rescource.
View Image
"By your command."
Thanks JH, I'll look into it.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?