Replies

1. 
   JDRHI | Aug 30, 2003 12:19am | #1

   John....to be certain I`m following you here...you`re talking about the bottom wall plate sitting directly atop the sill plates? `Round here we sit our box beams atop the PT sill plates....wall plates sit atop the plywood subflooring. I`m not sure I understand why the wall plate would need to be PT.

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

   "DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"

1. 
   JohnCA07 | Aug 30, 2003 12:38am | #2

   The bottom floor on this renovation is a slab with a surrounding stem wall. The lot has a slight grade and differs about 3 feet from one side of the house to the other. This sets the stem wall 10” to 3'10” above the slab on opposite sides of the house. I am thinking about using PT lumber for the bottom plates.  The mudsill is already installed and is of course PT.  Lots of termites in this area and a large part of the reason for the renovation.

   I hope I didn’t further confuse the mater.

1. 
   JDRHI | Aug 30, 2003 04:28am | #4

   Sorry John....senior moment.....Don`t do much framing on slabs around here aside from garages...couldn`t for the life of me fathom why you were setting wall plates atop sill plates.

   I don`t see a problem with it, but you might want to attempt some "creative flashing" to help deter such critters if it is of great enough concern.J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

   "DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"

2. 
   ccal | Aug 30, 2003 01:52am | #3

   No. But pressure treated will not stop termites from building tunnells across it to get to the untreated wood.

1. 
   JohnCA07 | Sep 03, 2003 08:53pm | #6

   I understood that the PT lumber actually killed the termites but maybe they have to ingest it not just walk across it? If they have to eat the stuff than I guess there is no real reason to use a PT bottom plate.

1. 
   ccal | Sep 04, 2003 08:18am | #7

   They will just build a tunnel right over it. Regular inspections help.

2. 
   SamT | Sep 04, 2003 02:14pm | #8

   Pt is treated for rot, not termites. Different issues.

   SamT

   I now believe all inspiration comes from God, it is meant to be shared, and it demands total commitment to succeed. When that happens, Providence acts too. John Hatch

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 04, 2003 04:01pm | #9

   That's true but it will kill the buggers if they ingest it. Some places in Florida are entirely built with PT where they lovingly refer to SYP as the tree that begins to warp the second it hits the ground.

   But using all PT stops the termites from eating it. Using it for sole only just makes them need to tunnel over it.

   here's a page from the ITBC (International Termite Building Code)

   "When Copper Arsenic treated lumber is encountered proper precautions are required by the TermOSHA to protect worker Termites from potential harm. Mud tunnels shall be constructed so as to allow safe access to healthy framing lumber used by the flesheaters. Materials used for these tunnels must conform to....".

   Excellence is its own reward!

   Edited 9/4/2003 9:59:31 AM ET by piffin

1. 
   Jeff | Sep 04, 2003 04:03pm | #10

   Piffin

   Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

   Jeff

2. 
   SamT | Sep 04, 2003 05:43pm | #11

   Sorry, Piffin, I haven't recieved the latest version of the ITBC. Could you email me a copy of yours.

   Hehehehehe!!!

   Samt

   I now believe all inspiration comes from God, it is meant to be shared, and it demands total commitment to succeed. When that happens, Providence acts too. John Hatch

3. 
   Piffin | Sep 04, 2003 11:05pm | #14

   I would add an attachment but once it's zipped and compressed, I can't find it, the print is so small as it is.

   Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   SamT | Sep 05, 2003 02:35am | #17

   Ya wan' a copy o' screenloupe?

   SamT

   I now believe all inspiration comes from God, it is meant to be shared, and it demands total commitment to succeed. When that happens, Providence acts too. John Hatch

5. 
   JohnCA07 | Sep 08, 2003 09:51pm | #18

   Ok, I've skipped the PT for the bottom plates and made sure I have a lease 6" of clearance between the dirt and any wood.  Regular inspections or treating the dirt around the home perimeter will have to be the solution.

   -John 

6. 
   SamT | Sep 09, 2003 02:30am | #19

   Did you isolate the nonPT plates from the concrete so moisture won't migrate into them?

   Samt

   "You will do me the justice to remember that I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his opinion, however different that opinion may be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it."   Thomas Paine

7. 
   JohnCA07 | Sep 09, 2003 06:37pm | #21

   Sam,

   Atop the stem wall is a foam sill seal then PT 2x8 (mudsill) and finally 2x8 DugFur for the bottom plate.  

   I am wondering about the vertical portion of the stemwall steps and if they should be framed the same way. Let me explain, when the stemwall steps up to another height there is a exposed vertical portion of stem wall. Should this portion also have sill seal and PT attached over it?

8. 
   SamT | Sep 09, 2003 07:33pm | #22

   Sill seal, and if the step is over 2', I would mechanically attach that stud to the concrete to prevent warp driven gaps.

   The sill seal should prevent wicking.

   SamT

   "You will do me the justice to remember that I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his opinion, however different that opinion may be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it."   Thomas Paine

9. 
   Ruby | Sep 09, 2003 06:34am | #20

   If you are going to use chemicals, when I talked to an entomologist about termites, he recommended treating before building and after on the edges with fipronil, "Termidor", by a licensed pesticide company, as the best method today.

   Elevating the wood from the dirt will not help with some kinds of termites.

   If you do, here they recommend 18".

10. 
    deadmanmike | Sep 04, 2003 05:56pm | #12

    LOL, You have way too much free time man!

    Mike

11. 
    Ruby | Sep 04, 2003 10:17pm | #13

    I know personally the termites that wrote that code.

    They ate thru two houses and uncounted other shed/garage/etc. structures, one of them a 22 stall horse barn with stucco exterior and lumber against it, with the first two 2" by 6" supposedly treated. Their mud tunnels went clear to the rafters, creating interesting designs up there.

    Termite control fellow recommended tearing the structure down as it was covering too great an area to treat for no more we would have been protecting. We did and have a metal barn now.

    ITBC doesn't cover metal, it is every bug for itself there.:-)

12. 
    Piffin | Sep 04, 2003 11:10pm | #15

    There are so many muslims in the Philipines that it has proven to be a prime recruitment grounds for terrorist types.

    Did you know that is why Louisianna is having so much trouble now with the Formosan branch of bin Laden's organization? He's using every means he can to attack out economy. These specially bred termites represent their airforce and marines, all rolled into one swarm..

    Excellence is its own reward!

13. 
    Ruby | Sep 05, 2003 01:18am | #16

    We are located in the canyons, by springs and plenty of trees growing, dying and decaying right there. A ready made paradise for them.

    The people that settled here in 1910 came from Iowa and evidently were not familiar with those terrorists and how to build to protect from them.

    By 1936, after losing two original houses to them, they built the existing house out of red eight hole tile and stucco that termites have never bothered. The next generation evidently forgot when building that barn or trusted those bottom treated boards to protect them.

    They didn't know what they were against, did they.

    Even today, when talking to the local builders about protecting for them on the new house, they can't believe we have any, much less that kind of ferocious ones.

    I then show them the interesting windbreak that has original untreated 4" by 4"'s that are one whole foot shorter than the ground and the bottom of the fence, that is held up by added treated railroad ties.

    I don't think we have any of those specially trained forces here, just your plain everyday ones.

3. 
   4Lorn2 | Aug 30, 2003 05:40am | #5

   I once helped wire a house where the HO insisted that all the studs, 12', be PT lumber. Never mind that PT, at least in this area, is all SYP and soaking wet. I saw at least one stud nailed in with a 180 degree twist. You have to love million and a half dollar plus houses that have walls that aren't straight. The drywaller had a fit trying to hit the warped studs, I don't think that more than a handful were unbowed, but didn't hesitate to nail it all in with the legal minimum of nails. The caulked joints, get it within an eighth of an inch and fill it, in the paint grade trim looked nice.

   HO kept bragging about the "quality and class" his house was going to have. I almost blew a cheese sandwich out my nose and wet my pants I laughed so hard first time I heard it. It became a mantra on the job for every half-assed detail and poor choice of materials. Look up at the roof and the sheathing and shingles sagging between the trusses and say the mantra. Look down the hall and see the drywall waving at you... quality and class. It became a shorthand for the job.

   I guess this means that you could have the entire frame made with PT lumber if you were of a mind to.