So I need a load of wooden fencing and outdoor porch railings around here really soon in order to pass my final inspection. I “have to finish” the porch railings (I’m using mahogany for the porch decking btw) to get my final so I figure I should order everything all at once. Especially using cedar…because I know I have to let the cedar season a couple (a cpl?) of months before I stain it.
I’ve decided to go with a square picket fence (2×2’s) with rails on both sides sandwhiching in the pickets. I want the top rails to be 1×4 and the bottom rails to touch the bottom of the pickets and made from 1×6 or 8’s.
I’ll need approx 250-300 LF of fencing (about 37-4×8 sections) and about 100 LF of railing using the same spindles/pickets.
So we go to a cpl of big fence companies to see them in person and ask the pertinent questions. The biggest company on Long Island wants about $200 uninstalled or delivered for 4×8 foot section not including the posts. The sections look like crap!! The rails are nothing like what I want either.
So then I decide to go to a company I’m sure a lot of you are familiar with WWW.Walpolewoodworkers.com . I know the costs at this place are absolutely prohibitive for me but I wanted to visit the showroom just for drooling and teasing purposes. Their stuff is absolutely amazing!! Nothing I didn’t already know but I wanted to pick their brains a bit because it looks like I’ll be starting yet another project that I don’t have time for…ugh. I love doing this kind of work. Its actually a project that’s reallyyyy satisfying but time is of the essence…when isn’t it, when you’re retired? Retired??? LOL
Anyway, I go home and start making calls to my lumber yards for cedar prices…ugh. Turns out Home Depot has red cedar 6′ 2×2’s for $4.78 a piece and the yards want from $6.24-6.48. I really don’t wanna shop at HD but I need more than five hundred 2×2’s. So what do I do?
I’ll dbl check the quality again on Monday and talk to my yard about my dilemma. I hate to seem as though I’m putting them into a bidding war but hey……I don’t have money to throw away. Maybe they’ll enlighten me in some way…maybe not.
The rails should be white cedar which is less expensive than the clear red which is all the yards stock. Now I have to find out those costs cause NO yards stock white cedar around here. Weird. The do how ever stock rough sawn 1x which is smooth on one side. Just not sure how smooth or how good that lumber is for this job. From what i remember I think I used it years ago for a board and batten siding job I did and the stuff wasn’t worthy for building a fence at all.
Anyone ever do a project like this recently? What did you find that you might offer me in the way of information?
By the way, most of the fencing will go around my pool and about seventy five feet will go in a new flower garden in front of my house that’ll be purely ornamental…The flower garden will be pretty extensive…all season blooming flowers and shrubs Japanese maple tree and boulders and another stone wall with a cpl of big stone steps like the ones I just put in etc etc
For the pickets I was thinking of making a jig for cutting the pyramid tops so I can cut a bunch at a time. Anyone have a tried and true jig for this?
I was just gonna cut some 3/4 ply like a sort of stringer look that I can slide my pickets into..cut turn and cut and turn and…
Also gonna make a 4’x8′ jig to make the picket/rail layout I saw in
The Fence Bible Book.
I wanna use 6×6 posts but I’m not sure if its cost efective to make the posts out of 4×4 CCA with cedar 1×6 wrapped around it and sinking the cca into the ground to keep it more rot proof.
Also, I’d like to mortise the posts to accept the rails cause I think that’d look way better not to mention stronger but I’m not sure how to do that not to mention is it worth all the extra work??
Any other suggestions or comments?
PS…I’ve attached some pictures of the areas the fences will be going.
Next project after this is some extensive exterior house painting etc etc…
Thanks y’all
andy..
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Replies
Know your pain
way over on other coast but I know they are famous countrywide - BearCreekLumber Winthrop Washington
one I use L&S Cedar Vashon Island Washington superb & dear pricing
note on posts - I tend to do 6X6 treated posts w/ the beautiful copper tops - options wrap post w/ different moldings and stain up real nice
gosh I'm a flunky w/ no pictures
John
I don't want to use CCA for the finished posts because they check and crack and warp too much but what I finally decided to do this morning was to definatly use CCA cores into the ground and then 1x shims and the wrap it with white cedar (6 1/2" full and two shims for the gate posts to make those 8" full), route the corners up to the edges of the 1x so it has more of a seamless look...then cap em'.. maybe use copper over cedar caps. I have to be careful not to make it too decorative being the style of this farm house. I've already done some stuff I'm sorry about but live and learn. Hindsight is 20/20 and "at the time" I was in a different state of mind than I'm in now.
Thanks
andy...
PS ...I just called one of the big fence companies to see how much they sell 6x6 posts for. they only sell 5x5's for $45 for a 7'er ...lumber companies want $50 for a 6x6 6'ers and the fence companies....get this..want $115 for a cedar "sleeve" with a regular wood cap and two flutes down one side...geezzz! I don't wanna sink cedar into the ground anyway so looks like I'll be making those too.I forgot to mention that you can see where two of those porches are in one of the rear house pictures...If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
How bout a galvi pole/fencepost 2" with drilled blocks say on 16"for building skins to desired finish.
Could even build them all in the shop then slip them on.
reading your reply and such I would highly recommend you call BearCreekLumber Winthrop Washington and have a go at their shipping / pricing
they routinely ship to your side of the states, Hawaii etc.picked up some bagged sand at HD this morning and saw some 6X6 treated material 8' long $ 19.95 - think my lumberyard does it for a might bit less for me and the pickings are betterI wouldn't use treated for deck or porch posts either but for yard / pool scapes I think you would be pleased what you could get from BearCreekand for WIW those catalog fypon? type companies have some beautiful post tops for painting etc.
John
I'll definatly call Bear Creek. Can't hurt. Its all about shipping costs. Of course the first thing I thought of when I was planning this all out was all the lumber yards I saw in Northern California when we were looking for property a few years ago. Of all stacks of the redwood and cedar stock I saw at every yard. Blew my mind being from the right coast.
Ya never know...they may make enough delivaries of their own to keep the costs down to the right coast. I'll find out on Monday when I call. Theres plenty of Lindel homes around here so who knows?
Frankie wrote me an Email ealier saying one of the lumber yards I deal with here on LI carries ####good supply of cedar at decent prices so I'll check them out too.
Also gonna check into 6x6 CCA from the yards and see if they have any quality stuff that doesnt check and split all over the place.
I know HD carries 6x6 landscape ties but those are pretty funky I think.
I'll check closer into it.
Fypon tops are a possibility but I'm staining, not painting. The tops I don't think are much of an issue....I think...but now that I think about it...lol...tops for 6x6's and 8x8's for the gate posts just might be an issue...ugh. Fypon, hmmmmm.
"Its always something" Gilda RadnerIf Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Have you considered making the posts out of concrete?Make several reusable forms (small batches) with whatever detail built in them that you want, suspend some rebar, mix up some fiber added concrete, and pour. "H" section above the ground to drop the fence panels into. Cured posts possibly acid washed for colour, then planted where needed.The "idea" came to me on the way to work while passing a concrete fence installation. They are using the "H" posts with concrete "boards" dropped horizontally in-between the posts.
Funny you should say that....I was thinking of that yesterday for some wierd reason. Seems like too much work for what you get though although it did come to mind. I think CCA into the ground and build a cedar case over it seems more my cuppa tea if I can't find solid 6x6 cedar at a decent price. And like I was saying to John...if I use a cca core, I'd add a 1x6 or 8 for a base in case the bottoms start to rot, they can easily be repaired.If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Hi Andy,
Did you ever go through with this fence?
It sounds very similar to what I was thinking of building for my parents this summer -- white cedar, pyramid picket tops, etc.
Did you end up using pressure treated posts and wrapping them with cedar? And mortising the rails into the posts?
If so and you don't mind some questions, I'd like to find out more on how you did this.
Thanks,
Steve
Did I make the fences? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeh. Till I was blue in the face and never wanna see another fence again...lol. Matter of fact I have a load of pickets I'm looking to sell. My plan changed 3/4 of the way through the project and now I have dozens and dozens of 2x2 (pyramided tops) cedar pickets left.
I made the entire thing out of clear cedar and the posts I used a not so clear but clear enough 4x4's except for one set of porch stairs posts.
Take a look at my website below and I have some fences I made in there and a gazillion miles more around the house.
Any questions feel free to ask.
Here's just a few ...lol... of the many pictures I have.
"What people will notice and remember is the broad brush of how how we act.We can aspire to reach our high ideals, or we can slide down the slippery slope towards the despicable." rjw
http://www.john-lennon.com/imagine-neilyoung.ra
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks Andy,Well, to start, here I am thinking of building a fence and you've got photos of outdoor furniture grade work. I'm impressed and humbled.I may well be interested in your pickets. I think they'd fit in well with the design I have in mind, like so:http://www.fatroman.com/FHB/fence.jpgI'll get some measurements this weekend when I head up to their place. It's on a lake in Western MD, at @ 2600' elevation and gets plenty of winter weather. I thought the white cedar pickets with either red cedar or pressure treated posts would hold up well. But if you've got other thoughts, I'd be delighted to hear them.Thanks,
Steve
See all the pickets in the front corner of my shop? I have two of those stacks left I'm either going to sell or reuse one day on more fences on my next house.
Personally I'd probably rather not move with them so if you're interested let me know and I'd probably let them go for just about what I paid for them and little more for making the pyramid tops plus shipping.
Thing is...they're not knotty like the ones you have in the picture.
Far as using pressure treated. They split and check a real lot. 4x4's in cedar arn't that terribly expensive. I ended up using cedar 4x4's on almost all my posts. On the top porch rails I used "clear" 4x4's in cedar.
I do have to say...I think it looks better than I even imagined it might!
Check with Home Depot for the 4x4's in cedar...if one store doesn't have them ask them to check other stores. I think I paid about $20 for a 10'er
"What people will notice and remember is the broad brush of how how we act.We can aspire to reach our high ideals, or we can slide down the slippery slope towards the despicable." rjw
http://www.john-lennon.com/imagine-neilyoung.ra
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Very good. I'll check back in when I'm up there this weekend. They look like they're about 4' long, yes?Cedar posts it is then. There can't be too many of them, I'd say less than 20.Now for the first of what may be many foolish questions, how to attach the pickets and caps to the rails. I'm assuming that stainless steel nails are the way to go here. But ring shanks or not? If so, is my framing nailer overkill? If not, can I use a 15g finish gun to put them together?
I used SS finish nails in my finish nail gun. I decided after the first cpl of fences that two nails side by side was way overkill so I went with one on top and one on bottom but for added assurance I put a dab of
PL Premium on each one. I then filled the nail holes with wood putty and sanded them smooth an hour later.
If all you need is less than two dozen pickets you should probably just go to your lumber yard and buy them there. Set them on your chop box with a set stop at the bottom end and keep twisting them for each chop and you'll have a pyramid top. Inmy mind before I did them I thought it was more complicated for some reason but its as simple as I just described. I make things so complicated in my mind sometimes...lol.
If I were you and all youre doing is 20 just make yourself a cpl of spacer blocks and move them down the line across the rails as you nail and glue each one.
I made so many that I had to make a 4'x8' jig you can see in one of those pic I posted....I think.
"What people will notice and remember is the broad brush of how how we act.We can aspire to reach our high ideals, or we can slide down the slippery slope towards the despicable." rjw
http://www.john-lennon.com/imagine-neilyoung.ra
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Sorry, I meant I only needed about 20 posts, as a rough guess. So I'm pretty sure I'd like your pickets as long as I can match them up if I need more. I'll be able to give you a real answer after I get up there this weekend.Funny, when I had thought about this project, it was the same thought you had about all the work just to turn the tops into pyramids. LOLThanks for the nailing info. PL sounds like a good idea as well.Now, you had mentioned mortising the rails into the posts. Did you decide this was overkill? Too bad there's not a giant version of the Domino out yet, eh.
Now, you had mentioned mortising the rails into the posts. Did you decide this was overkill? Too bad there's not a giant version of the Domino out yet, eh.<<<<Yeh...way overkill...if we had nothing else to do it'd be fine but...
Or if you wanna pay Walpole the big bucks they'll sell em' to you.
I toe screwed all my fences to the posts. Lucky I did too cause I got my lawn tractor stuck in a corner of fences. Just unscrewed a section and drove it right out..
Be acreful with the SS screws though..they can bend REAL easily...strip too. Just go slow and push hard. I used the self drilling ones too.
Home Depot even carries them now at a decent price.
"What people will notice and remember is the broad brush of how how we act.We can aspire to reach our high ideals, or we can slide down the slippery slope towards the despicable." rjw
http://www.john-lennon.com/imagine-neilyoung.ra
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM