Ive recently been asked to be incharge of the stage for our church easter play,again this year .Last year I did to good of a job on the set so I was asked again.I took the and wanted to out do last years set so Im trying to comeup with a way to build a Rock it needs to be 7 feet tall and about 6″ thick .It needs to weigh less than 100lbs. We built it out of styrofoam last yr . I t worked but it gets damaged easily.
We had a fellow church member paint it to look like a rock and it was impresive but was noisy when moved and to easily mved.
Ive thought of a light weight concrete or material of some sort then pouring it in a mold.
Any Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
Ok rack your brains ,Thanks mike
Replies
As I was reading your message, my first thought was that the rock should be made out of styrofoam. Then I got to the part where you said that didn't work so great.
So I got to thinking, what if it was made out of styrofoam, but was anchored to something heavy, or built around something? Then I got to wondering if you could build it around a piano - Then it could be rolled around on the casters. (even though it doesn't weigh less than 100#)
The only other idea I could come up with was some sort of metal "shell", hammered into countours to look like a rock. IT could be cut and welded to form curves, then smoothed out with an angle grinder and some body putty.
BTW - You know the better you do at stuff like this, the more they find for you to do..................(-:
And of course - Pictures will be required once this thing is done.
If you drink don't park - Accidents cause people.
What about the old standby of a wood frame covered with chicken wire and paper mache? Light, easily shaped and painted, and can be mounted on small casters to roll away.
Anybody in your area use an icynene type foam insulation? Makes a great rock, though ours wasn't as tall as you want
7' tall and only 6" wide? How you going to keep it from tipping over?
Barry E
Edited 2/11/2003 9:27:39 AM ET by Barry E
6" Thick And 7' tall and wide .sort of a circle
Sorry Im new at this
Edited 2/11/2003 11:05:50 AM ET by MikeD
How about the sytrofoam and then covering it with "stuco". Maybe one of the "fake" stucos.
I made a rock grotto out of closed-cell foam once (the kind they use in boat upholstery). It came in sheets of 4'x8' by 3" thick, and I used a hot knife attachment on my sautering iron to cut it, and then used a torch to make it irregular. Then I spray painted it with a base of brown & tan, with highlights of gray & black. Turned out great, and the owner walked right by it w/o noticing it among the surrounding rock. That's my favorite kind of compliment.
"If left is wrong, then right is the only thing left, right?"
Sounds great Nick Ill need some details from you but not sure how to do that .
Im new at this
O.K. The foam that I got did come from a boat re-upholsterer, it's what they put inside exterior boat cushions, which means it's pretty hard, but very light. As far as adhering the foam together, I guess two part epoxy would work, or perhaps contact cement. Practice on a piece or two, as I don't know what the chemicals will do to it (dissolve it, maybe?). It's very porous (1/32" pores)material, so it will look like some rocks, sandstone or like that, but couldn't be made to look like slate, for instance. The hot knife I spoke of is just an attachment that you can buy for your soldering iron, just unscrew the two prong tip, and put the new one on. This is a tip used primarily on boats, for cutting (burning thru) poly line, and you could find it in a Marina shop (or a quality hardware store). My blade is only about 1 & 1/2" wide, so that limits the size of slices you can remove, but they probably make larger tips w/ wider blades. I had an existing rock garden to look at while making my faux stone, just as a guideline as to what it should look like. When I used the knife, it would make an irregular slice, which I would then roughen further with a torch, or just cut with a cheapo knife. I buy the retractable breakaway type knifes for just this sort of thing, because the blade can be extended almost 4". Once you have your 'rock' shape, you pick the predominate background color, spray that on, heavy in some areas, light in others, and mix and match different final colors over this. To fasten this to the ground, I took a piece of 1/4" round steel stock I had on hand, shaped it into a 'U', and drove it through the foam sides (of the grotto) into the ground, then made a custom 'benchtop' to cover the wire. It made a natural looking grotto around a plywood box which had a pool light inside, which was ugly as sin. Not everything that I did came out exactly like I wanted it, but it was a fun job, and I was tickled pink when the owner missed it in a walkthrough.
"If left is wrong, then right is the only thing left, right?"
Didn't see this mentioned here, apologize if it's covered, but a quick easy way to cut foam products (you have to be sneaky!) is to get the electric knife from the wifey's kitchen.
PB
Hahahaaa! That might be a good method, but it's one I'll never get to try! The deal is; I stay out of her kitchen, and she stays out of my shop...everything else is fair game!
"If left is wrong, then right is the only thing left, right?"
>> you have to be sneaky!
Or you could buy one. The going rate seems to be $25. Cheaper than domestic disharmony.
Which reminds me "Divorce wouldn't be so expensive, if it wasn't worth it."
Maybe 25 bucks is cheap. Shoot, my wifey doesn't even have a key to my shop.
How about Hypertuffa? (I think I spelled it correctly). The gardeners of the world fancy this stuff for making big lightweight pots and such. It's a mix of cement, peat moss, and some other filler (usually pearlite or vermiculite). Looks like a pourous cement when cured and relatively lightweight. Do a searcjh at Gardenweb.com and you're sure to come up with a recipe. I've never played with it but from what I'm told it's pretty durable. Because of its porosity, I doubt it would take freezing weather very well thouogh (since you mentioned the outdoors)
how bout styrofoam with holes dug into it to accept "Structolite" (available at any lumber yard or box store). Structolite is cheap and easy to work with and when its dry it kinda has a rock like color.
Be a rock.....no an island..and feel no pain
Namaste
andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy Thanks!
Contacted my local lumber yard and they suggested a materal called wood fibber plaster because of the fibers it would be more durable.
Mike I actually began my career in the theatre as a scene and lighting designer
so the projects we do nowadays often incorporate a lot of theatrical techniques.
A couple of years ago we built this koi pond environment for a client out in
Hewlett Harbor Long Island. While the the "flooring" in the project
is real irregular Pennsylvania flagstone everything else you see if "fake".
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The nearly completed project (no water in the pond)
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It's all styrofoam covered in a fiberglass mesh that is used for architectural
plaster reinforcement. The glass fiber was "painted" with a slurry
of hydrocal plaster (a super hard plaster used for high detail casting) and
then sculptural
detail was done in molding plaster or plaster of paris which had a longer open
time allowing us to. That's the short version of what we did there. The long
version covers where and why we used strutolite on lathe, epoxy reinforced
fiberglass, and surface bonding cement (a fiber glass reinforce stucco type
product) but
because you mentioned "church easter play" I can assume two things that make
all that irrelevant.
or more. The stuff we did above was so realistic you couldn't tell unless
you
held
a piece in you hand and then it just felt different (lighter).
"keep it in-expensive" and zero.
Since I've been there and done that (low budget scenery for community theatres)
I'll suggest to you two techniques or methods of work. As Boss and I think
a few other suggested you need a weighted base. Something like an upside down
T made of plywood maybe just two or three feet tall. You have to test out what's
going to be stable and not get knocked around and the base should only be a
little bit lighter than what you think will be an acceptable weight for a finished
project since you will be adding and using styrofoam to get the rock like "look"
and that not going to add too much mass at all if you do it right.
Then add styrofoam to you sculptures armature with construction adhesive
to build up you form. Professionally for scenery we prefer the polyurethane
adhesives since they are stronger working with foam to foam bonds and it sets
up faster
but
any
adhesive
will
work and in community theatre situations in the past I have just donated and
used what ever we had left around or could find cheap.
Okay now comes the point where you break off into two sort of alternative
paths or options for skinning this thing. You've already shaped the foam to
the form
you want. (What is this some kind or 2001 Space Odyssey monolith like looking
thing? Too bad I don't have any of the photos of my JC Superstar set on the
web to show you all the rock work in that one.),
some SculptorCoat (aka
Sculpt or Coat) and coat the thing thoroughly with the stuff.
You might want to call them up and
ask them for a recommendation as to how much you'll need to coat the thing
(have your dimensions and SF of surface numbers ready). Using the stuff you'll
recognize the smell and think it just super heavy white glue (PVA) which
I am sure is a related material ( but they are NOT the same thing at all!!)
which brings us to the alternative...
9the softer flexible stuff) or possibly burlap (although that will absorb
a lot glue) and paint
pieces of them (cut them up into pieces or patches) on
as a skin
with
a liberal application of white or yellow glue. Note: I said "liberal application"
because you are both using the glue as both an adhesive to hold the "skin"
to the foam and as a weave filler. The screen or burlap skin gives the assembly
some resistance against punctures or dents that a white glue coating alone
will not provide (where the SculptorCoat would).
Coating the carved foam armature with plaster or lightweight cement or concrete
while fine for display or environmental theme work wouldn't work so well for
a stage environment in that it would ad too much mass to the object making
it either to heavy to move on and off stage easily and possibly too top heavy
making the thing want to tip over and fall. Also barring the use of a fiberglass
mesh it would be prone to breakage and or shattering.
Mike I'll e-mail you my phone number too so if you want to consult with me
some more on this you can give me a call. I going to be at my desk in my home
office most of the time this week and if I'm not there I've just gone down
to the shop (just a mile away) for a short meeting or something so I
would be right back so you can leave a message and I'd call right back. It's
tough be thorough and comprehensive about something like this by just typing
and posting on-line.
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
Man Jerrald, you do build COOL stuff! If I ever make it to New York I'm taking you to lunch. I bet an hour of pickin your brain would be worth the cost of the plane ticket and meal both!
Kevin Halliburton
(Saved one of my favorite quotes just for you)
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." -Proverbs 22:29-
Kevin one of our company slogans is "We Build Neat Stuff" taken from one of
the many Tom Peters management books that I've read. We actually built several
of these ponds now although I still haven't gotten to scanning some of those
old pictures yet. I only went the digital camera route about two and a half
years ago.
Here's another project from way back and this web page is a leftover remnant
from the first version on my company website from back in 1997 so the photos
never were "fixed". Petworks
Petstore Waterfall
We're actually talking with an architect and interior designer right now about
our rock treatment for doing up a whole basement to make it seem like an underground
grotto with a wine cellar, smoking room, and media room. Could be really kool
if it comes to fruition.
I should add that I think all the ideas and suggestions that everyone else
here have come up with have some kind of application and use somewhere. I could
probably describe twelve or more different techniques we might use at one time
or another to make our synthetic geography.
If you ever do get a project that you thinksome of this might work for you
should give us a call regardless of your Texas location. We now build this
stuff in our shop and then break it down and ship it so it could in reality
go anywhere.
Same thing for our stairs and ironwork projects too although a lot of our
iron pieces, parts, and assemblies seem to come in to the USA through Texas
so ironwork
wouldn't make much sense but hey ya never know.
View Image
"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
You can count on a call if I run into a project where I can work your magic into the design. Send me your contact info when you get a minute.
Wish you lived a little further South. I'd be knocking on your door with my perttiest smile- resume in hand. :-)>Thanks for taking the time to give us a glimpse behind the emerald green curtain at some of your hard earned techniques.
Kevin Halliburton
"Excellence in any department can be obtained only by the labor of a lifetime; it is not to be purchased at a lesser price" -Samuel Johnson-
Jerrald ,
Where have you been all life?
You are the answer to my prayers.Ok Im going to read your post 10 times and try to get things in my thick head .
Thank s and Ill probably need to call.
Ya know while designing and fabicating realistic and naturalistic rock for
architecture and disply what's improtant is the look of the finished product
when working with scenenery there are a couple of very important (if not the
most important) considerations that have little or nothing to do with the
design and look of the piece.
How do you get it on and off of the stage.
Where is it going to be stored when it's not on stage. Does it fit in the
wings and is it going to block any entrances and exits.
Is it going to survive the punishment it gets off stage That's where most
of the serious abuse happens. Collisions with actors, other scenery,
and stuff like that.
I don't have much use for all those theatre lessons learned over the years
nowadays so I'd be glad to help telling ya what I know.
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
Jerrald....I think we went through this before but, where you from again? I use to hang out in Hewlett Harbor as a kid. They had nicer toys on that side of the track....lol.
Be well
Namaste
Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'm in Katonah NY Westchester county. We've done ponds for a home in Hewlett Habor, a store in Lawrence, and a nursing home in Rockaway. While not to far away as the crow flies from us up here (50 miles) we see projects on Long Island as "exporting over seas".
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
How about canvas artfully draped and painted over a plywood frame.
Edited 2/11/2003 1:42:59 PM ET by CAG
Build it out of styrofaom and then cover it with a mesh cloth/plaster of paris mixture. You can buy it at most any store and works well. It will help keep the "rock" from getting damaged and gives it a nice natural texture.
then weight the bottom of the rock somehow.
Good lick,
Matt-