I’ve got someone who wants a horse barn built.
There are no plans so kinda gonna be design on the fly.
So that is why I’m coming here for some input.
It will be 24’x36′ with 3 12’x12′ stalls.(see attach.)
That is one half of the 24′ and the other half
will have an open area w/tact room
The construction will be P.T. 6×6 for post out of the ground
w/ 6×6 on top for the “top plate” w/2×6 joist on 2’o.c.
spaning 12′ to a center support of 6×6 post and beams.
Rafter will be 2×6 with 6-12 pitch and a metal roof.
There will be infill 2×4 wall(2’o.c.) between 6×6 post that will
be “resing on the ground” that will have 2×6 nailed horizontally
on interior for the horse stall and 4×8 hardie siding on exterior.
One big question I have is on the 6×6. I was going to use 10′
posts with 2′ in the ground(our frost level is only 18″)
Would you use 12′ post and bury them to a depth of 3′ or 4′
depth to get added rigidity or is the 2’deep enough.
Another question I have is has anyone got any links for barn
construction or has done something like this before maybe
with some pictures so I can work out some more of the details.
Edited to add that I can’t even open my own attach. Is anybody
else having the same problem?
Edited 3/19/2005 6:53 am ET by butch
Replies
Make the file a jpg, shouldn't have a problem viewing that.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Make the file a jpgBoy, next you'll be asking me to perform brain surgery(lol)I think that would be easier,(brain surgery)I was lucky enough to get this to attach. and now I needto change it.I haven't got the foggiest idea how to do that.be in a daze. Now where is that bone saw.......
butch, first thought was 2' in the ground is waaaaaaaaay too shallow for a pole barn.
Here's a brief look from a search:
http://www.easybuildings.com/ don't know anything about this guy, but the couple drawings may help you get an idea.
call the extension office in your county, should be good info there.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks, for the linkbut a stupid questionWhat is an county "extension office"?A previous poster mentioned this also.
in our state, it's a county office of the statewide......maybe agricutural dept. They have info on a lot of things pertaining to agriculture. Trees, plants, land use, drainage, buildings.............Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
What is an county "extension office"?
here ya go... http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/index.html
The Cooperative Extension System is a nationwide, non-credit educational network. Each U.S. state and territory has a state office at its land-grant university and a network of local or regional offices. These offices are staffed by one or more experts who provide useful, practical, and research-based information to agricultural producers, small business owners, youth, consumers, and others in rural areas and communities of all sizes.
how goes it with your son and college?
"there's enough for everyone"
Calvin and David thanksthis place rocksMy son will be attending Univ. of MemphisOh Well!!!At least I don't have to pay anything and that isa good THING!!!!!!!
...Univ. of Memphis
wasn't that the BB team whose freshman missed a couple of free throws with no time left to miss the tourney? - - I happened to catch the last couple minutes of the game - my heart went out to the poor kid...devastating...
congrats - -"there's enough for everyone"
You are correct, the next game thefans gave him a standing ovation
Having had horses for a few years, I would advise you to avoid P.T. wood material where the animals can chew it; horses are notorious chewers....the term is "cribbing' and they will injest the treatment and can incur medical problems or die.
Normally, livestock structures, while they may have P.T. framing, the framing must be covered or isolated from the animals. In some states, including mine, there are some code requirements for agricultural buildings that address this. Furthermore, wiring must be in steel conduit below 8 feet.
My own horse stalls are planked with Doug fir car decking and the structural 6 X 6 posts are unreacheable.
Build everthing heavy duty. Horses can really beat up a flimsy barn.
Install some heavy steel "I" bolts in the alleys or other key locations for "cross-ties". I was able to get some great eye bolts (used)from my local power company for very little cost.
Check with your state's Extension Service for advise about this barn project. They should have a website.
Thanks for the heads up about p.t.Would a horse chew on the bottom runner?I would Want to use p.t. as the first runner.Do you know how deep your post are in the ground?And if they are set in concrete? (I know there arepros and cons about doing it both ways)You got any pictures?So many questionsThanks for that great reply
Edited 3/19/2005 8:10 am ET by butch
Butch,
Get those posts in the ground. 2' ain't enough. I wouldn't personally dream of anything shy of 4'. 5' would be far preferable. Fill around them with crushed rock, tamped in the same way you would dirt. 6"-8" of gravel, then tamp hard. Repeat. If you want to use treated posts (I would), then you can sheath them above the ground so the horses can't eat the treated wood. As the linked article will tell you, treated is fine and recommended down where in contact with the ground.
Ventilation is a huge issue in a horse barn. You'll need plenty of that, but no cold chilly drafts allowed. Summertime isn't an issue, but damp cold weather is. And since you intend to use a metal roof, plan on insulating that roof with foam between the rafters or it'll be raining in there and you'll have sick horses.
Caution is the word concerning leaving anything exposed that the horse can ding, poke or cut themselves on. I know of an local owner here some years back who placed some large dowels out of the wall on which to hang the halters and bridles. Horse wandered into that area one day, spun around unexpectedly and took its eye out. No sharp metals edges anywhere either. Nothing should be overlooked in this regard. If there's a way a horse can injure themselves on such stuff, they will...... sooner or later.
(Some owners around here have taken to using super heavy rubber mats on the stall floors instead of just dirt or clay floors, but that isn't your concern as it's an "after the fact" owner decision.)
I'm kinda superprised that the owner hasn't presented you with a super-detailed set of plans to build. Makes me think this person is not a real experienced nor long term horse owner because most of those know enough to micro-manage the construction of a building like this unless dealing with a builder who has much experience constructing horse barns, knows the requirements and all the potential pitfalls that can injure their horses or cause health problems.
http://babyurl.com/hVtm42
Check this also. What's it worth to get it right the first time?
http://www.textkit.com/0_0914327615.html
Want more info from the experienced?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=horse+forum
Your .psh file is likely from a Lexmark printer. Hopefully, you can reopen that file and then re-save it, this time as a jpg by looking waht file type you're saving as in that "save" window. This time choose .jpg from the dropdown selection list. Give the new save a different name and you should still have the original psh also.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 3/19/2005 9:56 am ET by GOLDHILLER
Edited 3/19/2005 10:01 am ET by GOLDHILLER
Edited 3/19/2005 10:02 am ET by GOLDHILLER
"I'm surprised the owner hasn't presented you with a super detailed set of plans...."
I agree. Horses require a lot of special consideration in their barns, stalls, fences and such. Even those of mild temperament can easily injure themselves or their handlers, especially if the structure, as someone mentioned, has stuff sticking out of walls or posts. A horse is a magnet for nails and barbwire, so facilities have to be kept clean.
An experienced horse owner will be aware of these things and will take pains to ensure that hazards are avoided.
And a good number of horse owners invest a lot of money in the beasts and are pretty fussy about details.
Personally, I owned Shire draft horses for a number of years; My neighbors have several BLM mustangs which I care for from time to time. I never cease to be amazed at how a horse can find a way to get into trouble, or tear things up, even in the best of conditions.
On another note, I mentioned cross-ties in a previous post; These can be put in safely by setting the eyebolts into a recess. Don't use lags....bolt through.
The cross ties are a godsend for Vets and horseshoers and other handlers, especially if the animal is a little spirited.
I think you'll find the Extension Service recommendations for pole barn structures will require 60 inch imbedments. Locally, we're required to set them in a 24" dia hole on a concrete pad and then backfill with tamped gravel. The holes go easy if you rent a skidsteer with a 24" auger attachment. The rental shouldn't be much against digging by hand.
I'm kinda superprised that the owner hasn't presented you with a super-detailed set of plans to build. They are doing this on a shoe string budget and the only paid person will be me (if I do it) as they will have a lot of "free labor". There just looking for a carpenterto keep everything on the straight and narrow.She has got a nice sketch on what she wants and just looking for someone to help her see her dream.I've got pictures (on disc)of a barn that they have theirhorses at now that they are trying to losley copy Just trying to get it all figured out(transfering photosfrom disc to comp.)Thank you for those links,very helpfulThis whole thing would be so much easier ifn theyjust had a set of plans.
Edited 3/19/2005 12:13 pm ET by butch
I've got pictures (on disc)of a barn that they have their
horses at now that they are trying to loosely copy
Just trying to get it all figured out (transfering photos
from disc to comp.)Piece o' cake. Several ways, but easiest for the initiated is to make a new folder on your desktop and name it "horse barn" or some such. (If you don't know how to make a new folder……….place cursor on any open area of your desktop and right-click, then choose new folder from the menu. Left-click and name it. Then move cursor to open area and click again to set the new name…..or hit the enter key) Place disc in bay, open "my computer". Try placing your cursor directly on the bay that contains the disc and dragging that icon right over your new folder and dumping it. Should work, but if that doesn't..................then open the bay that contains the disc. (If you have a photo program loaded on your puter that automatically launches when you put the disc in the bay……just close that program, then proceed with the above) Disc bay should open in reduced size window. Now just place your cursor on the folder of that photo disc, left click and hold down while dragging the folder over and dumping it on top of your "horse barn" folder. If there's no folder on the disc, but a bunch of individual files, drag those via the same method and dump each one in the new horse barn folder.Watch the symbol beside the file or folder while you drag it over. It should have a little + sign beside it. If it does, you're fine. If it has a little curved arrow instead, then it means you're making a shortcut to the file instead of an additional copy. If that's the case, then force the copy instead. To do this you will first hold down the "ctrl" key on your keyboard and then do the drag and dump. You should now see that little + sign instead of the shortcut arrow.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 3/19/2005 12:57 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
still trying
butch.. i'd use 4x6 pt , not 6x6.. and it would be treated to .60 retention..
and i'd buy the 12' and bury them 3' on top of a flat footing pad the top of the pad being 3' below finished grade
build the structure on a raised pad of gravel to make sure you are going to wind up with good drainage and sloping grade
Though already mentioned, your County Extension Agent, who works with the state university, should be able to provide guidelines. Here in TN, this agent & the university have been extremely helpful providing assistance to us in getting started on a beef-cattle farm, which btw had not been used for grazing in 30 to 40 years. Had to start from scratch. Wish we had sought this assistance prior to building a simple barn and that is another story. You may wish to click on the university site to learn what is available there. Fresh water source, ventilation, elevation for drainage & height most important plus room to move around any clean/out or hay type equipment. And if you really wish to go all out, identify need for t.v. coverage from stables to the home so owner can be aware if difficulty arises with birthing, etc.
Another source is ProgressiveFarmer.Com & run search on horse barn to view the leads there. Google search on horse barns provides lots of info.
Suggestion: Ensure your customer fully understands your plan to eliminate any misunderstandings once completed. A trusted friend & a handshake will not ensure you with a satisfied customer! Get all on paper and agreed to prior to beginning.
ProgressiveFarmer.Com thanks, will ck. it outSuggestion: Ensure your customer fully understands your plan to eliminate any misunderstandings once completed. A trusted friend & a handshake will not ensure you with a satisfied customer! Get all on paper and agreed to prior to beginning. Agreed
and i'd buy the 12' and bury them 3' on top of a flat footing pad the top of the pad being 3' below finished gradeAnd so it shall be if I do it.That was the kinda of input I was looking for.I'm trying to download kodak easy share so I'll post pictures of what the owner is trying to copy.
butch... this is a 24' x 36' pole barn..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Unless I missed something, I don't think the 2x6 "top plate" or the 2x6 rafters and clng. joists are gonna float.
Pole barns typically have a double 2x10 (or 12) top girder bolted to either side of the poles that will support the clng. joists and rafters.
This guy needs and engineer or a set of plans for a stock building for his area.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I missed your post, but the top plate will be 12'long 6"x6""beams" on top of the 6"x6" posts.I agree on an engineer or plans. So I'll make that clearbefore I start.
I've been away from the country a while but I recall the big farm supply store(Central Tractor?) had barn plans for like $25. It might give you a good idea on spans etc.
I helped convert my brother's dairy barn to horse stalls and I gotta say them horses are some destructive beasts, they'll chew any edge, kick holes in walls and doors etc.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
I'll ck. into that,
thanks....
MIke I hate to beat a dead horse(pun intended)but on that garage pole barn, did it have a foundationor did you come out of the ground w/posts and theninfill between posts w/2x4 framing? Just trying to picturehow you did that. Did you use sheathing under it all(siding)?If no foundation did you rest your infill between posts on theground? You don't by chance have pictures of it being frameddo you?
butch.. we stripped the loam.. put down a pad of 18" gravel base
dug our post holes thru the base
poured our footings.. set the poles and the horizontals
then we put 2x vertical blocking in at 24 oc.. so we'd have nailing for the clapboards
the sheathing is ThermoPly
the bottom horizontal is two PT 2x10 and the slab is poured against themMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The barn has to work for the horses, and it also has to work for the folk who will daily care for these horses.
For example, having a poured concrete floor would help greatly with shovelling/sweeping/hosing down duties. You end up with a more sanitary space, with fewer flies. Stalls can be planked or matted to prevent foundering. A raised perimeter and raised piers would keep the structure out of the manure, so you could then use regular rather than PT posts and sills.
Where will the horse's food (hay) be stored? It is usually most convenient when the hay is stored upstairs, in a hayloft. This means you would have to design your walls and loft for substantial permanent floor loads.
It helps to have wide and tall doors, so put some thought into your header materials.
one more time
Edited 3/19/2005 6:34 pm ET by butch
I have Punch installed and I couldn't open that file either butch. My program said that I have to make sure activex is installed correctly. I think I've uninstalled activex or disabled it.
Gotta figure a way to get it into a jpeg.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
blue.. here's what he posted
View Image
the open part is too big a span... it should be broken with a postMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
http://www.ofoto.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?showSlide=true&Uc=120xfnfn.hrvsrar&Uy=i81smj&Upost_signin=BrowsePhotos.jsp%3FshowSlide%3Dtrue&Ux=0
If this link works,these are 4 pictures of the barn she has her horses boarded at now.The plan is 12' 6"x6" posts buried 3' into groundw/concrete pad at bottom. Have the hole 12" to 18"dia. backfilled and compacted w/gravel. The 6x6's willbe 12' o.c. and in the center of that span will be a 4x4This will be filled in w/2x4 wall(2'oc studs) with treated bottom plate resting on ground and 4x8 hardie siding wrapping the ext.with tar paper under it all(siding). The interior will have 2x6running horizontally on approx. 7"oc nailed to the 2x4 frame.The bottom 1 or 2 boards will be treated and the rest willbe non treated. For some lateral (racking) support on the openarea I would run from post to beam a approx. 16" 45 degree6x6 on both sides of open posts. I debated about 1/2 plyunder the siding for further rack resistance. Any thoughts on that? This barn that I have pictures on is using wood t-1-11which I feel offers a better rack resistance than hardie would.But the hardie I feel better about running in contact w/groundEdited to add that the 4th pictures shows the add. thatwas done w/cedar 1x's butted together. And also this barnis not the best built has they have used for the outside topplate a 2x6 and a 2x6 under it to form a L. With vert. supportsabout every 6' and further in the open areas.
Edited 3/19/2005 10:50 pm ET by butch
butch.. i can't comment on your plans as you stated them..
i can't "see" them..
you sound like a pretty careful guy.
pole construction is pretty straightforward.. some of those sources the other guys listed would be helpfulin the design
you link to the 4 photos opened fine.. but the photos don't tell me what you are trying to convey.. i'm a plans kind of guy... i like const . drawings and sectionsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
but the photos don't tell me what you are trying to convey.. i'm ####plans kind of guy... i like const . drawings and sectionsI was just showing those photos to kinda of improve on an exisitingidea,....and I'm with you on drawings and sections,That would make my life so much easier right now.But thanks for taking the time and I forget to mention that24'x36' garage looked good, what was your involvement on it?
we used to use a pole building contractor for inexpensive buildings like workshops
after watching about three of them go up , i figured i could improve on their designs adn materials
that garage was the second time we built that design.. i could do it even better if we build it the third timeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
you sound like a pretty careful guy.I'm so careful that I'm anal about it <lol>
Thanks for trying, Mike got one to open.That is the customers sketch.
built a number of barns for customers , my favorate is the one i built for my horses.
I first built up the ground using gravel aat least 1' above existing grade after which I formed a floating footing about 8" high x 8" at the bottom tapered on the outside to 3 1/2 at the top,2 1/2 " rebars in the centre 3000 psi comcrete
2x4 walls insulated r12 & vapour barrier . then 2x 6 t&g hemlock painted with mix of 1 part boiled linseed oil 1 part varsal & 1part verathane which gives a golden oak look
exterior is 7/16 osb covered in coloured steel
bldg is 30 x 40 which gave me 10 x 10 stalls & 10 foot concrete alley way
I used one 10 x10 for a enclosed tack room on opposite side of alley I used 2 10 x 10 spaces for a office & 1/2 bathroom
there are 6 x 6 pt posts down alley way with 2 x 6 divider walls all exposed edges have metal covering them these edges are available from the same people who supply the sliding door frames
the loft floor is on 2 x8 joists 12" oc & sheated with 11/16 t&g osb
the roof is 12 12 pitch built using 2x6 rafters then strapped 16" on centre then steel
on the front I made the footing 4" wider than normal & bricked the entire face to the peak
in the centre of the bldg front and rear I installed 8x9 garage doors so I can drive through using electric garage door opener's
this building has been up 10 years & hasent got one crack anywhere in the footing
yt Dude
a floating footing about 8" high x 8" at the bottom tapered on the outside to 3 1/2 at the top,
I would like to have more detail on this, I don't get a good mind picture from that info - I see you are from a cold climate, the foot of gravel provides the drainage necessary so that frost heaving is not a problem? - interesting....thanks
"there's enough for everyone"
The gravel buildup is mainly for drainage & to get a level site.
the stalls needto be higher than the outside terain.
as for frost heave the overall structure floats
have had pole barns jack out of the ground even after using cross pieces nailed to the bottom portion of posts
with the floating footing the top is the width of the overall wall thickness ie. 1/2 ply + 2x4 + 2x6 innerwall
I run the steel on the outside down about a inch over the footing to stop water getting in
I slope the footing out on the outside to get a larger foot print for the weight of the building
I have built a number of variations of this building ie dog kennels using engineered trusses,horse barns using trusses or rafters so as to give storage for hay.
the stalls are usually levelled with stone dust and if the horse was a digger a plank floor on sleepers .
when a stall was needed for other use ie. tack or feed we simply poured concrete
my office floor is concrete over 1 1/2" styrofoam then ceramic tiled which gives you a easy floor to clean
the 1/2 bathroom is a often requested item by customers as horse people aren't famous for their toilet training male or female
the heated office gives you a backup source for water for the horses by way of a frost free tap through the wall into the alley when the outside heated water freezes at -30 F as it does here.
Here is an update on the barn that was finally built.
Finsished about 3wks ago.
Thanks for the help from all you who gave me input on
this project. Ended up using 6x6's approx 42" into the ground.
Used stone to pack them in in stead of concrete. For the beams
I used 2-2x12"x12'w/1/2" ply between posts. The ground in these
pictures has yet to be leveled(to be done by owner) Couldn't convince
them to dig out about 1'-2' of ground and put in a gravel bed.
The siding is 4x8 hardie. The roof was done by some one else.
Sorry for the size of the pics. Can some one resize them.
I'm doing
good if I get these to load.
hope you didn't expect anyone on dial up to see those pics.....................It's Never Too Late
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