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Building First Home

| Posted in General Discussion on October 4, 2002 09:14am

     I am getting ready to drop off my plans to a few builders to get bids and would like to compare apples to apples.  I am wondering if there is a list out there somewhere of typical owner specified options.  There are some I can think of, such as flooring, appliances, lighting fixtures, plumbing fixtures, etc.  I would also like to have this list so that I can have most of the items selected prior to breaking ground.  I have heard a recurring theme on here about construction schedules being screwed up because the homeowners didn’t make a decision in time.

    Here are also a couple of top five lists if you have time, can break them out in separate posts maybe?

   List your top 5 responses to these questions?

   Places to save money during construction that won’t sacrifice quality?

   Things homeowner can do (that won’t get in the way) to provide sweat equity?

   Good ideas that made some of the houses you have worked on better places to live?

   Bad ideas that made either your job harder or were just plain bad ideas?

   New materials in the construction business that I can bring up with my builder?

   Things to ask your bidders before you make a selection?

I have about 100 more questions, not to mention the 100 or so I have gotten answered just by reading past posts.  This is a great board and I appreciate and thank you for any responses.

 

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Replies

  1. Handydan | Oct 04, 2002 11:13am | #1

    Just a couple of ideas off the top of my head to get things going for you.

    1.  Don't try to buy a bigger house than you can afford, so you won't have to cut corners.  Quality is nearly always more expensive to start off, but pays in the long run.

    2.  Ask the builders what you can do to help, most will tell you to make all your choices early, don't change your mind to often, and then help with the cleanup.

    3.  Fiber cement siding, probably the best " new "  product I have come across in a while.

    4.  Think long term  Extra insulation, high efficiency heating, long lasting floorings and so on, will save money and trouble for years to come.

    5.  Having said all that, remember to try and relax, it's only a house after all.  No matter how much planning it won't be perfect, so just enjoy it and live.

    Dan

  2. mbbailey123 | Oct 04, 2002 12:16pm | #2

    Mike, there are many things a builder can do for you. Just remember that everything the builder does will cost you money. The question then becomes, "What can I do as good as the builder?" Only you can answer that question. Some ideas would include the following;

    1. Purchase your own appliances and lighting fixtures at the best prices you can find. You will beat the builder every time and get what you want.

    2. Be your own general contractor. This will require a lot of work on your part, but will save you a lot of money. There is a high degree of risk in this option if you don't know the trades people in the area you are building.

    3. Take you plans to a cost estimator and have that person do an independent take-off of all materials and services. This will let you know the approximate cost of the house to help you evaluate the credibility of a builder's bid and force you to make the materials decisions independent of the builder. It will also help you refine your specifications and give you common points of discussion with the bulders.

    Good luck!

    Mike Bailey

    1. User avater
      JeffBuck | Oct 05, 2002 11:08am | #5

      1...purchase your own appliances......only if you have plenty of lead time, and are willing to handle any and all mistakes that arrise from screwed up orders to misordered stuff.....both on the part of the orderer and the factory. Can you make sure the stuff will be there..waiting in the garage.....when the carp need a direct measurement or a template?

      2..own GC. good way to shoot the whole project to hell....if you've never done anything like that at all. Experience is what  good GC get's paid for.

      3.....independent take off.....will only tell you what the independent take off guy thinks it should be build for...not how much it'll cost the contractor of your choice to build it.

      My best advice...come up with a budget....and either find a way to add 20% to that number to cover unexpected expenses and/or customer upgrades.....OR...

      .....subtract 20% from that number and use that as the working budget...and hold on to the reserve.

      Make decisions early...and stick with them. Change things at the drafting table...it's cheaper and faster there. Happier too!

      Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......

    2. FrankB89 | Oct 05, 2002 07:07pm | #6

      If doing a bank loan, it's unlikely they'll allow the HO to act as GC unless the HO has GC or equiv. experience.  And banks will vet the GC for you if he's not been previously approved by them.  It's for the HO and the lenders protection. 

  3. Mooney | Oct 04, 2002 02:20pm | #3

    You need to do your research before the building starts . Its common to have several meetings with the builder before you are in the pilot seat. Being your own general is only for people with a lot of experience. A general is worth his money to some one who doesnt know the home construction business. A general contractor is a walking  library of knowledge to your pursuit. [ at least the seasoned ones are ]You however can help the system by researching you and your wifes wants and needs . Also by gaining the price differences for each product you may consider . Its a learning experience to say the least. Looking at other homes in your price range is a good way to start . Meeting the builders at these sites are an exellent way to meet the builders, and get a feel for them  and the way he handles himself on the job. You can learn a lot about a person in an hour. You and your wife will be married to this man who is chosen for at least several months. I know a good doctor , but he wont talk to me , would be an example.

    Concrete siding is one of the best products that has hit the market in a while ! We have discussed this siding to death and it should be in archives. Reading all the posts on subjects of interrest would be of great help to you. WE will be here to answer your pacific questions , when ever you need us. But lose some of the comments about the best for the cheapest , as its really a home owner turn off on this site. Marring a woman who is a 10 , making your living, doing all the house chores ,  while you sit home ,smoke cigars, and fart , doesnt happen , and neither does your comment above. Oh yes , and the let me help the contractor question. This is also a home owner question that originates since the beginning of time. So, if

    you are a surgeon , let us sit in on a few surgeries and offer our help. Im not being hard on you at all. I hope you are not offended ,because its not intended.  Just think about what you ask. 

    Tim Mooney

      

  4. andybuildz | Oct 04, 2002 03:16pm | #4

    Mike

         For a few extra bucks, before you hand out these plans sit down with your architect and have him/her write a list of every detail you can think of from appliances to types of window trim, paint, etc etc...Try to put in all the details that you can. Things that you know you may want to take care of such as the appliances, carpet, painting...have them all itemized so that you can exclude them if you want. It should ALL be on paper the best you and your family along with the help of your architect can provide. This way things wont get lost verbally with builders. Its just as important to have your desires as close to exact as you can make them on paper as it is to have those sets of plans.

    Be well

            Namaste'

                      Andy

    It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

  5. RW | Oct 05, 2002 07:24pm | #7

    1 tip: when you're trying to make a decision with the GC or decide to change something, don't give them your already decided answer, i.e. "I want this wall moved over here and a return ..." state what you want as an end result and why. (Well, we have this huge antique desk that we want in this room and it's got to . . .) You're paying the GC to be able to work through this kind of thing. A lot of times what you want to achieve can be done easier if you let the GC think through how this affects him too rather than deciding ahead of time what the answer already is.

  6. scoyman | Oct 06, 2002 04:23am | #8

    FINISHING UP THE 3RD HOUSE DESIGNED AND BUILT FOR MYSELF.

    CELLULOSE INSULATION, GEOTHERMAL HEAT.

    READ ALL YOU CAN READ ABOUT DESIGN. LAYOUT THE HOUSE TO USE THE SUN AND HAVE IT TRAVEL THRU THE HOUSE TO GIVE GREAT DAYLIGHT. MAKES A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

    1. 55512122 | Oct 06, 2002 07:16am | #9

      I am the GC on my house and did find a bank that gave me a construction loan (BB&T)without haveing a licensed GC. BUT I would not recommend this to anyone that has little or no previous construction experiance. Be very careful about the bids you are getting from a GC. Take lots of time to compare and check and recheck every last detail. Make sure nothing is left out. If you have something other than a square box on a flat piece of property with city hook-ups then have a qualified achitech check the plan and estimates. It might cost you xtra 800.00 or more but can save you suprises and $$. Only build what you can afford minus 20%. Make sure your GC understands the plans and knows exactly what you want and you should know what you what also dont go in thinking the GC will make sure the subs will do a perfect job and everything as to the plans. After each day go back and check everything that was done that day. You have to stay on top of the job with your general contractor. Its your house and your money. JMHO, Roger

      1. Piffin | Oct 06, 2002 08:00am | #10

        " have a qualified achitech check the plan and estimates."

        OK, now define "qualified" architect!

        and tell us where to find one!

        Any achy I ever worked with got his budget figures from a contractor or from sq ft pricing out of RSMeans

        The archy doesn't work with actual money so he has no track record to base it on. Most work on percentage of actual costs on the job so he has an incentive to see higher bills. Professional and personal integrity is the only incentive he has to save money on the project. I highly doubt that a good one will seriously review costs for only 800 bucks. It takes too much time to do it right..

        Excellence is its own reward!

        1. 55512122 | Oct 07, 2002 05:33am | #15

          The architech should check that the GC hasnt left off any work or materials that wasnt included in the GC estimate, but your right Piffin I dont know any that will do a cost breakdown or any kind of costing except if you need a engineer. Checking their work at the end of day means did they go by the plans and used the right materials and installed correctly. A good GC will do this but I have seen most just worry about keeping their subs busy so they can keep the money rolling in all the while hoping the homeowner wont find to many things thats wrong or change things that is right.

          JMHO, Roger

          1. User avater
            BossHog | Oct 07, 2002 04:37pm | #16

            Ever look at a thread like this and wonder if the original poster is still paying any attention? The messages addressed to him show up as "unread".

            Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor. [Wernher von Braun]

          2. Piffin | Oct 08, 2002 02:16am | #17

            Right, Boss, but mybe he's forgotten about us while wading through the pile of bids and specs he's no doubt gotten by now.

            ;)

            But we who are here regularly forget that some folks only go online once every three or four days - kind of like the politicos in DC who forget what it's like to live in 'flyover country'.

            Excellence is its own reward!

          3. Mooney | Oct 08, 2002 05:27am | #18

            Thanks Boss , I was going to mention that this time around . Ive been baby sittin this thread to see the comback  here. Its like a good movie to watch on TV that was rescheduled, with out notice  !!!

            Tim Mooney

      2. VinceCarbone | Oct 06, 2002 01:38pm | #11

        Roger,

        I agree with most of your advice,except the part about checking the job every night to see if everything is done right.If the customer doesn't know enough to handle the contracting themself then how could they know if the subs have done their job correctly. That's why you hired the GC in the first place,he has the skill and the contacts to make it happen.You have to hire one you can trust and work with him and through him to get your house built.Vince Carbone

        Riverside Builders Franklin NY ICQ #47917652

        1. stonefever | Oct 06, 2002 05:49pm | #12

          It's been my experience/observation over the years that the more someone knows about the construction process, the more likely they are to hire and appreciate a good builder.

          1. Piffin | Oct 07, 2002 02:34am | #13

            "t's been my experience/observation over the years that the more someone knows about the construction process, the more likely they are to hire and appreciate a good builder"

            But the corollary to that is that the more they think they know that they really are in the dark about, the more they will screw up the job..

            Excellence is its own reward!

          2. TLE | Oct 07, 2002 03:39am | #14

            I would consider the first step would be to know something about the builders that you are going to have bid on your home.

            Don't just go by their ads or that you saw a job that you liked that they were working on - get some first hand referals. If you can, talk to current and past customers, talk to the lumberyards, or talk to smaller contractors that you trust to see who (and why) they would reccomend to do a build job of this size.

            If you have a plumber or other sub-contractor that you have developed a relationship with - ask whose work they like. They will typically know whether the builder is putting out a quality product and operating a sound business.

            After you have selected a builder based on their qualifications and reputation, work with him to select the products and options you wish on your home. The builder may wish to have allowance amounts allocated for items to be chosen later (ie cabinets, floor coverings, etc)

            If after dealing with this builder you still wish to solicit other bids, use his specifications and allowances as referance points when talking to others. If these other builders wish to use differant specifcations, find out why and decide what value those changes have.

            If you start out talking to several builders at once, you will likely get confused on who said what and why. I have yet to see any standardization in the way that builders will lay out their proposals and that can make it hard to compare the particulars.

            A home is to important to be chosen by the perceived lowest cost. Choose a builder that puts out good value and adjust your plans to fit your budget - don't choose a builder to fit the budget.

            Terry

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