I have to wonder if anyone out there has ever built window sashes.
I’ve got an old house with a few really big double hungs and I am contemplating making new sashes. I Know an out fit that can make the make the insulated glass and I am pretty sure they will give me a good deal on it if I pay cash. I think that they will just plain be impressed If I brought in fresh sashes.
What do you think. I have the equipment just need cutters for the shaper or the router.
Maybe there is some literature out there on this. We also have an outfit that can set up the jamb liners. I figure I might be able to build the windows for about a 3rd of what they would cost me to purchase.
The windows are approx 50×65
Jeb
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We built replacement casements with insulated glass for a client (it is a strange request, but we are flexible) used floating tenons and my benchtop mortiser. we even built a simple aluminum brake and clad them in aluminum. You can buy all the hardware from https://www.truth.com/ (we used a local dealer). and they turned out beautifully.
I've build double-hung sashes on a few restoration jobs. Simple enough, and a fun project to do yourself. Saving a few bucks is icing on the cake, but you have to figure what your time is worth. Chances are, you're time is more valuable than what you would save. There's also something to be said for quality control. That was the issue on the restorations I did - the clients wanted to make sure they got top quality. Except for one client who had a tight deadline. The custome shop said 3 weeks minimum and the client needed them in a week, so hired me to build them in my shop after hours. I assure you, there was no money saved on that one, as I charged overtime rates for 8 sashes.
Anyway, if you have the knack and the tools, I say DIY.
See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
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I've done countless sash, it's not bad. You ca eithermatch the cope and stick with router bits or handplanes, or you can make profiled stops for both interior and exterior. I've recently been using Azek milled for exterior stops, in place of the traditional glazing putty. I had a thread here somewhere, called "Simple Sash" Advanced search will maybe dig it up.
Be aware if you are MATCHING existing muntins and mullions, with TDL panes, the M&M's have to be larger to conceal the sandwich of IG units, and some old sash are also 1 5/16- 1 3/8 thick and retro fitting them with IG is not easy, the rabbet may be too shallow, so IF you are using the old as a pattern, adjust that rabbet for adequate room to allow a stop, IG's are NOT glazed in with putty.
Pay cclose attn to the meeting/lock rails when dinking with jambliners, some will require the lock to suck the sash closed, and weatherstipping from http://WWW.Conservationtechnology.com is a big help. Oh, for the sash frame, use M&T joinery, don't think about biscuts unless the sash is fixed.
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Thanks for the info so far. The reason I want to build new sashes is because I don't think that there is enough room to sandwich the ig's in the old sashes. I would also like to have fresh joint's, glue, etc... The new glass will be considerably heavier. It would be nice to get a good seal at the jambs as well and I would like to be able to seal the weight pockets and add some sort of balancer in stead of the weights.What is the wood species type acceptable for the build? I recall seeing a coiled balancer somewhere in a window restoration website, anyone seen or used these?Thanks for the help,
Jeb
Those tape measure type coils suck. And probably wont handle IG sash. The friction jamb liners are what I have been working with.
If yer paintingthe sash, I like Walnut. light and strong, no rot. Stable. Doug.Fir is good, but splintery and can have issues with resin leaching. Poplar is good. And if you can find it, clear spruce, agian, watch out for resin canals and pitch pockets, windows get hot and bleed.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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You find that poplar holds up to the weather without rotting?
Primed with oil and painted with acrylic, absolutly. We've all had this discussion so many times, about heart wood, and true poplar verses tulip tree and all that..it varies as to the application and region and prep and actual species.
I could write a book.
My trim on my house is pre Civil war, and Poplar..and still there. But again, it was "Old Growth" and all heartwood, with lots of minerals in the cells. Some areas have aspen and fast growth from clearcuts..no good.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Hello again,I have seen the discussions on poplar and so on. I live in Minnesota and if I recall correctly we don't typically get the same type poplar. Yellow poplar is what I have seen around here. I will be staining the insides to match the bold stain.I am thinking pine or doug fir.I am just beginning to do the research on how to go about this and see if it is even a plausible idea. I believe it is. Plus I can say I did it myself. It would be nice to make my own wood replacement windows for the cost of vinyl less my time of course. Jeb
Right, listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuliptree as MODERATLY rot resistant. Ground contact is verbotten, but for sash it is fine, when painted for outdoor exposure.
edit to add: I am in the process of restoring and refurbishing a slew of them made from Poplar circa 1830. How much longer could one ask for?
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Edited 12/9/2008 10:39 am ET by Sphere
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn153.pdf
That's ground contact, BTW.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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True, but still a decent rough guide to native species.
Fact is, I think many woods will serve adequately for sashes.....providing that (as you noted) ...all surfaces are well sealed/primed & painted..and kept that way. It's the "keep them that way" that's the fly in the ointment in the real world. Sooner or later, these protective water-repelling films break down and then water can/will enter the wood fibers. Consequently, a guy better count on that happening and choose the wood accordingly.
I've built numerous windows from soft maple (very affordable and readily available here) and it has performed very admirably even when the paint and glazing was neglected for long periods of time (years). YMMV.
See there is the crux of the matter, here, Soft Maple is silver maple, and it rots when still on the tree..I'd never consider it.
In the PNW there are good maples that are soft , I.E. Not rock or sugar. But here? No way.
The other problem is the USFS lists many species that are never really sawn for use, like locust and sassafrass , two of my favorite albeit hard to find woods. In sawn form. Osage too, its a great wood for many things, but usable sizes are a problem and the qualties that make it great, also make it damm near impossible to work with.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Oddly enough all the Soft Maple we get out West is Eastern .
The Poplar we get is Red Tulip to my knowledge and also Eastern .
You may also be thinking of Western Maple or Pacific Maple that does grow here and is used somewhat it is probably considered a Soft .
The Silver Maple like Brown are types of Soft Maples
regards dusty , who just got a bonus load of QSWO
Yeah, PNW maple stuff we got for guitars was "Quilted and Curly "Big Leaf Maple" Awesomely pretty wood..but expensive as all get out for the AAA figured stuff.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Otherwise known as Acer macrophylum. Common here and easily available to anyone with a chainsaw mill.
I had a very large old dying silver maple cut down, and the deal was, the tree guys would not take the wood away, but they did cut it up into pieces I could move. So I put it in the backyard where it rotted away in a couple years. I burned it in a giant bonfire, but some logs had pretty much turned to dirt already. It was hard to keep burning. I would not use the lumber for anything outside.
Same here, I have a heap of it from pruning the HUGE one out front, and my saw keeps dying. It'll rot before I get to getting it fluffed up for fire wood. And FORGET hand splitting it..it's like a sponge with gnarly knots.
They call em water maples locally, they sure do suck up a lot of water.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Mine sucked the water from the sewer and clogged it with roots. It also broke the windshield of my truck with a fallen branch. Maybe it was dying from all the copper sulphate crystals I put down the sewer. I don't miss it.The silver maples were a huge cause of our 2 week power outage this summer after the windstorm.
Ours busted the Wife's Saturn Wagon rear glass. My tree guy was saying they will dry out in drought summers and lose the elasticity they have when it's a wet season then in the wind they break easy and drop branches, he was right.
The firat prune was to open it up, so wind could pass thru, then we did another to get rid of really rotted big branches. The tree will probably be coming down in year or so..deciding what to replace with first.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I agree.
I built all the doors and windows for my log house, all divided lights-windows are casements .
Almost any wood will rot if wet enough, but Poplar is stable, machines well, cheap out here, and has held up well. As noted, good paint is a must. I sealed all mine with dilute spar varnish and then SW Duration. They look great after 5 or six years.
The interior is also varnished and looks good. The amber of the varnish seems to hide the faint green cast of the poplar and actually looks pretty elegant.
Stef
Edited 12/9/2008 12:34 pm ET by fatboy2
If you had NOT used spar varnish with UV inhibitors, the slight green would UV away to light brown.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Ha, I didn't know that. I'll try it as I still have a couple doors to build. The varnish does have UV inhibitors, I think.
Thanks
Stef
If it's SPAR varn, 99% chance it does have UV block.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Jeb ,
I have done my share of sash work and here out West the majority were originally made of Fir or Redwood and even Pine . Poplar in my experience is not great for an exterior application .
Good luck dusty
WARNING -GRAMMATICAL NITPICK AHEAD
>>I have to wonder if anyone out there has ever built window sashes.
Nope, no one has ever built window sashes. There are no such things.
The plural of "sash" is "sash"
THIS HAS BEEN A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY GRAMMAR SYSTEM. HAD THERE BEEN A REA GRAMMATICAL EMERGENCY, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED TO PURCHASE A COPY OF STRUNK & WHITE'S "ELEMENTS OF STYLE."
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So a whole bunch of window sash is not sash's nor is it sashes , thanks for telling us that , you never know when we will be tested on that .
You could be correct but we have never heard of a " Rea " emergency is it possible you stand grammatically corrected or are rea emergencies only for grammar . Now don't go back and edit your post .
What's your source? I know you can't trust everything you read but this source references to 'sashes' numerous times: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sash