*
Greg;
Your best bet would be to read a book on the subject, or hire a carpenter for two or three hours to lay out and cut your stringers for you.
brisketbean
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Greg;
Your best bet would be to read a book on the subject, or hire a carpenter for two or three hours to lay out and cut your stringers for you.
brisketbean
*
And watch while he/she does it..lol
*Greg,I'd take Bill Curry up on his offer.One of the measurements that he'll need is the total "rise" from the basement floor to the first floor level. This will allow him to find a comfortable riser height for you.Another measurement he would need is the "run" from the first floor where the top tread ends, to the wall where the landing will be built, and also how wide you want the set of stairs to be. (about 40" ?) This information will help him determine the tread width, and how many risers and treads would work good in this space. He'll then be able to tell you the height of the landing and also the number of risers that you need to get from the basement floor to the landing.You might also mention what material you intend to use for the treads, ( 2x12's ?)You can do it yourself. If you need more help as you go, just post another message in this thread and I'm sure you can get some advice.
*When I got started in the trade I was real excited about everything. It wasn't long before I learned that folks who could layout roofs and stairs were respected for those skills. So I asked one of the old timers to teach me how to layout stairs. He harrumpt and said "if you have to be shown that, you're not ready to learn". The math is the easy part. Even then you'll have all kinds of decissions to make regarding how to meet the stringers to the landings, space from framed wall, reinforcement...This is not a simple task. I agree with brisket, read a book and be prepared to waste some lumber learning. - jb
*And don't forget how much fun its gonna be when you realize the basement floor isn't level,it slopes to the floor drain.(sometimes dramatically in old houses). Getting those treads to horizontal can be finicky.Wish I could pop a beer and watch this happen,stephen
*Sounds like I got a cheering section or is this going to be like "back seat driver" b well if you move it a little more to the left.......
*Greg:Personally, I think that doing some types of roofs and stair rails are much more challenging than doing stairs. Here is some tips.Find out what the building code requires in your area. I always like to build to code or better, even if there is to be no inspection. The building code in my area says that the max rise is 8 1/4" and min tread is 9". If you were to go with 8 1/4 rise and 9" run, you would have an uncomfortable set of stairs. Also, all risers must be of uniform height +- 3/8". Bottom riser can be smaller. Min stair width is 36". There are special requirements for stair rails too.Read this I like the box at the bottom of the first page called "Figure Rise and Run".
*The little clips you put on your framing square to layout stringers may be helpful to a beginner. At least if he messed up all the mistakes would be the same
*gregg29,You might try tacking some 1/4" plywood strips (11 1/4" wide) on the wall and then doing your layout on the plywood as if they were 2x12's. Once you're happy with the layout you can cut out the 1/4" and use that for a pattern on your 2x12 stringer stock. A belt sander makes a good eraser if you mess up the layout a couple of times.Take your time to get your pattern right before you cut any lumber.Good luck,Ed. Williams
*The good news is that it's not that a big deal, even for lightweight me. But you have to know basic trig. and double-check your math.Use a level of whatever sort to find the correct rise over the entire run of the stairs. And beware a landing that isn't level, such as a walk outside sloped for drainage. Somethig I had to force myself to accept was that the riser and the tread size are irrelevant to the way you cut the stringer. Just forget about them after you're sure the individual step rise and run you've settled on will allow what you need.I shoot for 7" rise and 11" run, a comfortable but space-consuming stair. People who are unsteady on stairs like large treads. Don't confuse tread size with the step run! The treads are often bigger.The framing square is easy enough to use to layout the cuts, but I finally decided to chicken out and figure the hypoteneuse of the rise/run (you remember, A^2 + B^2 = C^2), then mark along the entire length of the stringer where each run/rise junction should fall. That way you can't drift a fatal 1/2" off ... the code only allows what, a 3/8" variation in rise from highest to lowest? (I just keep hitting + on the calculator to get the distance to the next mark, then step down it with the framing square.) It's really not a big deal if you check the math and tweak the rise/run for details like finish floor thickness. Then go ahead and make sawdust. First stringer cut is a model for the rest.The thing that bugs me is all the wood that gets wasted. What do you do with the dozens of little triangles, or how do you avoid making them? You basically hack up a 2x10 or x12 into a true stringer depth of a 2x4 or so, what a waste.I haven't messed up a stringer yet (out of a mere 20 or so), knock on wood, but all those little sketches and math I scrawl on the sides of them sure help!
*When I have a landing I do a full scale drawing of top landing and bottom including finished floor dimensions. It is not hard there are just a lot of measurments to consider. Say 5/4treads, 3/4 flooring at the top and on the landing and nothing in the basement ( this was the last L shaped stairs I did. The drawing helps me Keep it all straight. Take your time. If you do it right you will never know. If you screw it up you will know every time you use the stairs.Rick Tuk
*Buy a length of 12" masonite siding and cut your trial stringers out of that then use it for a pattern when you get it right.
*
Here's a true story. A carpenter was hired to build stairs for a basement. His only question: "Do you want the short step at the top or the bottom?"
*
GOOD NEWS!! If you're near Cleveland, Ohio then you can do this...
Take 300 dollars and give it to me. Then I will layout and make your stringers for you while you watch. We'll be done in about an hour!
Pete Draganic
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One error in your true story, the carpenter wasnt realy a carpenter.
brisketbean
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gregg29,
That might be $300 well spent. I'll do it for the same plus air-fare and hotel for two nights.
Ed. Williams
*2 nt hotel? touring? or getting an early start? no offense intended or we'll be in that other post that has laid fallow for a few days.
*
I assume that L shaped stairs take a 90degree turn
for the bottom few steps. building the bottom steps
from boxes on top of boxes would allow you to painlessly
(relatively) provide a flat level surface as the
base for the stringers.
*
yes there is . Call your favorite millwork salesman, have him come out and take you to lunch, then go measure the job, and two weeks later the stairs are delivered and you set them in place and secure them, faster, cheaper, and better.
Now, if you like doing it, get out your framing square, and your stair buttons, and a second framing square, sharpen your pencil, put a new blade in your saw, and have at it.
And only buy two 2x12' s because if its a housed stairway, you can make the third middle stringer out of a 2x6 or 2x4, and toenail all the little triangles onto it so they exactly match the outside stringers, put a little glue on them and your center stringer will be stronger than the other two.
My boss showed me that right after he cussed me out for not owning a chisel and having a dull 8 point saw.
*Hey! I saw him first. Besides, aren't you busier than a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest these days?Pete Draganic
*greg,If you don't know how to do it hire someone who knows how. If not try reading up on it. Taunton does have an excellent book/vidio combo. But let me give you a word of advice from the man who gets the help calls at 11:00 at night. Make sure you can finish what you started.Jason
*Yeah......I am too busy to go to.......Hey...... where is this guy anyway?You're right.....you saw him first. He's all yours. Sorry about that.We still buddys Pete?.......Pete?Ed. Williams
*Just Do It! If you screw up a peice it'll be the best learning experience You could have, you'll never make that mistake again. however if we're not taking career here pay someone to do it for you. Steve
*It's no coincidence that stair builders are considered the most skilled of the carpentry trades. Read a book on the subject and be prepared to waste more than $30.00 on wood if you want to build a proper set. Better yet, have someone who knows how build them and you watch and learn.
*Aw heck Ed, you and me is like peas and carrots!Pete Draganic
*William,Are there people who just build stairs? I thought it was just a part of being a real carpenter.Ed. Williams
*
Ed;
There are people who specialize in stairs because most people who call them selves carpenters have not a clue how to build a correct set of stairs, that are architecturaly correct, comfortable and safe to use. I dont know how many rough framed stairs I have had to tear out and start over on
just to get them safe. One of my hobbies is to measure the risers on stairs and see how many of them are the same from top to bottom, very few are correct, "where do you want the extra inch, at the top or the bottom?" Try it, see how many you can find with equal risers, good ratio and level treads, how many carpenters do you employ that can build a self supported spiral staircase with mitered risers,skirtboards, and radial ballustrades from scratch?
brisketbean
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Ed, yes there are, and I also agree with you on the part that every carpenter should know how, at least the basics.
I myself use to specialize in complex stair building before I started GCing full time. To bad new carpenters aren't learning the whole trade.
Wm. Swales
*"where do you want the extra inch, at the top or at the bottom?"That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Of course it goes at the bottom! Just kidding. Guess it beats the hell out of adding an inch to a tread height somewhere in the middle of the staircase.Pete Draganic
*Here's a carpenter type trick I was taught.After all the figuring...use a set of dividers set at the hypotenuse(or tip of riser to tip of step) and step off the required number of steps down the board.Use the framing square to fill the line in (they should be REAL CLOSE to what the stair buttons are telling ya )and everything will match up.In a long run, a small error with the stair buttons can multiply and put you off quite a bit!
*Greg, don't listen to all of those nay sayers, if you have half a head then you can work through it. The info on the rise and run above are correct but there are a few crucial things to consider. Most of these guys will have made the mistake of not calculating for the finishes on the floors above and below the stairs. At least I did my first few times! If you measure the total height from the finished floor to finished floor remember to cut off the thickness of 1 tread from the bottom of the stringers. If you measure from the subfloor to the subfloor then you only have to cut the stringers if the treads are thicker then the finished floor and only by the difference in there thickness. And now the hard part, if you are measuring from the finished floor at the top and the rough floor at the bottom, then subtract the thickness of that flooring befor doing your calculations and then treat it as though you are going from rough to rough. If it is the opposite ie rough up top to finish at the bottom, then you should add the thickness of the finished floor to your calculations and treat it as though you are going finish to finish. While we're at it don't forget that code calls for a minimum 1" nosing and a minimum 10" tread. If it is an required egress then the finished width must be at least 36".And please, don't go higher than a 8 1/4" rise. And my final bit of sage wisdom is " when in doubt, draw it out"
*" when in doubt, draw it out"...right on, Brian.For a first-time attempt at stairs it's the only way to go. Draw a plan view that includes your first floor joists through your second floor finish floor. Draw in all the details; subfloor, underlayment, finish flooring, etc. Add in the rise/run.Draw the stringers. Here's where you'll figure how to notch/attach the stringer into the second floor and how you'll notch and anchor the base to the first floor.Add the treads and risers.Go over your numbers several times. Run the rise/run computations to fine tune your rise/run. Don't forget that in nearly all stairways, the number of treads and risers are unequal.Watch out for headroom above at each tread nosing.A few posters have mentioned that when laying out the stringer, measure up the edge of the stringer, marking off the hypoteneuse of the rise/run to minimize fat pencil errors with the framing square. Good advice.Take your time. Realize one thing...that if it's going to take you a while to build these, and if you cut the stringers from somewhat green 2-by stock, often times the wood shrinks, and as it does it can increase your nice 90-degree tread/riser angle upwards by a few degrees. That may frustrate you when you trim out the stairs. Maybe not. That's why others advocate using doubled up 3/4 ply, or a manufactures lam product in place of 2-by for the stringers.Take your time. Work the numbers. Watch your pencil lines. Patience.Like Brian wrote, " when in doubt, draw it out".Good luck...Greg, I just re-read your post and noted the "L" stairway. As before, figure the rise/run for the entire stairway. Then build your landing platform where the "L" will turn, make it the proper height so that the finished flooring on it will be at a multiple of your rise. Now break down the area above, and the area below the landing into two "mini-stairs". If I'm understanding your application, this may help you simplify things a bit.
*Mr. Bbean,We don't build complex stairs everyday, but if asked, we can do it and have done it. I agree that to build any stair correctly takes skill. We just tore out a set last July that a framer had put in. (No offense to you framers). We had to re-do it 'cause we just couldn't make the rise and run work with what they left us. I also agree with you , Brisketbean, that not everyone who calls themselves a carpenter these days is really a "carpenter".BTW, what's your real name?Ed. Williams
*gregg29,After reading everything here, I guess the answer to your question in "no".Did you get the stairs built?Ed. Williams
*
I have to build a set of L shaped stairs for my basement I'm framing the walls for the sides. The only thing I'm worried about is cutting the stringers for the steps, if I screw up the goes one 2X10 or 2X12. Its the mesuring that scaring the hell out of me. Is there an easy way to be exact or is it just trial and error. I also could just use the metal stair brackets that you nail into the 2X10 and lay the tread upon. Any suggestions.
Thanx greg
*If you'll post with the measurement's I'll do the math for you.
Right about now I'm wondering if he did.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
razz.. are you the one responsible for resurrecting this thread ?
some great old names...
big ed. williams
brisketbean
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I saw the guest thing too, but a few real names appeared.
Finally saw the dates.
When did prospero arrive?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
about 3 years ago , i think..
this thread is from before PeteFest.. maybe Gabby's Ghost ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
This thread is from the deep dark confines. Best leave it be. You never know where it's been.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Think so?1999 - that positively pre-millenial
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
exactly,
pre-millenia.
pre-alot of things.
and post-alot too.
Scary thought, no?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Hey, check your email at home. I sent a link to Ed the crooner.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
yeah, I be the guilty party.
At the time my mind was frazzled from a cellar stairway I was attempting to build thus my outburst to the thread.
Having transplanted staircases but never having built one from scratch, at first glance the project seemed straight forward no problemo till I got looking closer.
So I decided to use the BT search to see what was what about some info. Wasn't getting anyplace but fried, but did discover some pretty interesting threads.
Did you know DieselPig was around back in '01 and shared about an episode where he fell thru a stairway opening on someone else's job one morning and was saved by somehow catching himself with a long 2x12 where he bounced around like a diving board.
And there was a thread with converse between Jerald Hayes and 'He Who Must Not Be Named' which was still up.
And while I got you on the phone I gotta ask you what the XMF in front of your last name in the BT mailing addy stands for? heh heh
be interesting things lurk in the deep recesses of the BT archives
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
"there was a thread with converse between Jerald Hayes and 'He Who Must Not Be Named' "NOT POSSIBLE! The two of them didn't share a common language! LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
mf1 is my office email
xmf is my home email
did you find gaby's body in your search ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
No, but there's so much in there it could be hidden anywhere.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
hey, BB, wher ya been ?
are we gonna lure you east to andy's for TipiFest in August ?
wow.. i guess i really should look at the dates on some of these things..
where are they all now ?
wonder if he ever got his stairs built ?
wonder how this thread popped back up after 7 years ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
how come everyone in this thread is called "guest".. as if anyone would have pete as a "guest"
if i guest the right answer, do i get the $300 smackers ?
hey, guest pete, how's the campaign ?