OK, got a few old 12 AWG extention cords that really are not good anymore for heavy usage, but insulation is ‘mostly’ intact.
got another cheap shed going up* 175 feet from nearest power, only need power for a light and battery charger at times, shed lifetime expectation less than 20 years (I may be dead, then torn down for Mcmansions?)
So, any drawbacks to burying old extension cords for the feeder? Soldered cord joints embedded in roofing tar, it will have a plug on both ends so no NEC code issues <G>
I know, why not just let the cords lay on the ground for 20 years, save the digging – well, the GK’s do like to dig holes, diesel for the hoe likely near these days what good wire would cost? – just the principal of doing something really cheap.
BTW, realize I’m bottom trolling here, but should get some fun or interesting answers?
* like Frenchy’s gas post, thing only gets 10 MPG so not going to renew the liscense on my dump truck this year, need an indoor place to store it other than garage by the house.
Replies
You're joking, right?
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Nope - He ain't joking.
Exostic Dancer: A girl who brings home the bacon one strip at a time
No joke, gonna do it, why waste perfectly useable wire (though not for rough usage) when it can be used productively.
I am going to sound stupid asking this of you .
Got any old pipe or conduit around to use as a race way?
Use that along with the soldered ends and that way if and when it goes bad at least it is easy to pull out and redo.
Hey, I'm game so it could work. I used a 100' extension cord installed permanently on the ground for two years from my temp pole while building my house. Why roll it up each day when its all dusty and dirty to only have to unroll it again about 10 hours later? I think thats what kept folks from stealing it to. The grass grew up around it and it wouldn't move easily. :)
In your situation I don't know if I would embed the joints in roofing tar. Seems like some kind of fire hazard to me.... How about some heat shrink tubing?
At least conduit it.
105606.7 in reply to 105606.1
At least conduit it.
Nah, ya get 10 cents a pound for rusty old conduit at the scrap yard these days <G>
Okay then. Imbed the thing in cement.
How's about using some old garden hoses or poly water hose as a conduit?
1" PVC for conduit.
If you're gonna run an extension cord undeground, at least do it right.
Disclaimer: I can't believe I'm offering advice on this. :)--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
some old garden hoses
Yep, ;th;ere will be hose inthe trench also, but for water supply. Non - leaky old hose is getting hard to find these days.
How's about using some old garden hoses or poly water hose as a conduit?@@@Why not? I was redoing some area lighting at a complex and here is something black running into a raintight box. Hey, it's water hose with black tape on the end. I am sure it was not to code <g>.However, the wire inside was just fine and pulled out very nicely. The hose was in better shape than the rigid conduit on that job. We relaid 50' of 1/2" P40 with new boxes. Black poly hose has also been used. For low voltage stuff - phone, fiber, CCTV, I like 4" COEX. It's the cheapest 4" pipe I can put in a trench.
The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
Get some direct-burial-rated wire.
I also do not like to throw away anything. I have way too much stuff for this reason.
Sell the old cord at a recycling place. The copper is worth enough.
Somebody should really set up a charity that accepts copper for recycling for a good cause.
Get some direct-burial-rated wire
got 500 ft of 10-3 UF in a shed, few hundre ft of 12awg UF also, but will save it for something more permanent - pretty pricey to replace if I had to.
I think that you should post this over in the JLC electrical forum.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
'Duh' question from me:
If Art ran individual 12AWG wires in solvent-welded pvc conduit, would that meet Code for underground service? Yeah, 12-gauge only gives him a few amps of service, but if that's all he needs, that's all he needs.
So, if he could do that, why couldn't he strip the outer jacket off the extsn cord and run what's left? or even just run the whole shebang in water-tight conduit (volume/heat issues??)?
Joints could be crimped in those silicon-gel-filled gizmos.
Duh? Edumacate me, bro....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Well code wise the wire needs to be approved for that type of usage which cords or wire in cords is not.Interesting enough Romex uses the same insulation system as in THNN. But it is not labeled as such. So you can't use the invidual wires, but bet that has been done more than once <G>.And even sealed underground conduit is considered a wet area because you will get condensation.However, voltage drop is not covered by the code. So the wire size and lenght is OK..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Added benefit, it seconds as a groundhog zapper! Just watch for the little puff of smoke comes up from the ground and.. "Yep, got another one"
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 6/9/2008 6:11 pm by Ted W.
uses the same insulation system as in THNN. But it is not labeled as such. So you can't use the invidual wires, but bet that has been done more than once <G>.
So it's administrative rather than practical. Sigh.
Ahhhh, WTF, I'm not labeled as approved for certain uses, either.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Make sure you wrap those splices with genuine masking tape, not duct tape or that fancy vinyl stuff. Save the duct tape for important jobs like cracked window repairs.
Id do it, but with a mondo blob of silicone sealer n the splice.
Edit: cordless keyboards suck
Edited 6/9/2008 5:53 pm ET by MarkH
you and me could be friends, its not mickey mouse, its maxi mouse.
i agree with other posters that if yer gonna do it, you gotta conduit in something. ya can't just bury it thats bad form.
old garden hose, plastic pipe, anything to give it that extral layer of insulation.
P.S. Father in law lives in spokane, when i ever visit there i have to look you up.
Edited 6/9/2008 5:53 pm ET by segundo
anything to give it that extral layer of insulation
good idea - I was out of town for the local annual recycle event this year and didn't get to du;mp off my 10 tires per year, maybe slit the tires and throw them over the wire in the trench?
tires are hard to slit, i tried to do it once and gave up quick.
at a local hardware store i saw a swinging horse (kiddy ride on type of thing) that was created from an old tire. i took a good look at it, and made some notes. i was sure i could replicate the design. i could not cut the tire. i tried several sawzall blades, tried the jigsaw, no go.
Very sharp knife, dip it in oil occasionally, tire sidewalls cut like butter.
Need to take 4" grinder to the beads and steel belts though, stinky job.
"Soldered cord joints embedded in roofing tar"
I can't believe that that would have a chance in hell of lasting more than a month.
Rich Beckman
PeachFest!! $85 per adult, Children under devouring age will be $25, Children under 5 - Free
Make out checks to David Doud
Mail the check to Rich Beckman, 3324 S. 600 E., Marion, IN 46953
View Image
"Soldered cord joints embedded in roofing tar"
I can't believe that that would have a chance in hell of lasting more than a month.
Proven track record - did a similar thing 40 years ago for a 'temporary' feed (threw the cord in the septic field trench) and it is still good, over 10 gigohm insulation resistance even when I checked it out of curiosity about 5 years ago. .
"Soldered cord joints embedded in roofing tar"I can't believe that that would have a chance in hell of lasting more than a month.@@@Much longer. We were redoing one complex that had been done over in '89 and here is a Carlon box (flooded, of course). Pump it out and behold - common wire nuts in tiny plastic bags into which some sort of tar-like material had been poured.Dissected the connections. They were not in bad shape. I believe tar was used in the Good 'Ole Days for this purpose.@@@I would suggest that for a first class job <g>, he daylight the connections in something like ABC pipe with caps and use actual nuts rated for underground burial. (Said complex has 6" ABS splice boxes all over for their area lighting. It's a cheap hand hole.)The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
My brother in law did that once to run power to his garage. I was there for Christmas dinner, and noticed that while there was a foot of snow on the ground everywhere else, halfway between the house and the garage there was a bare spot with nice green grass growing....one way or another, the buried extension cord deteriorated so there was a short right in the middle. Even better, inside the breaker panel in the house he just looped the wires around the main service conductors, upstream of the main breaker, so there was no overcurrent protection.
I have no idea why he didn't notice what must have been a huge jump in his power bill.
""halfway between the house and the garage there was a bare spot with nice green grass growing..."" Maybe you should post that in the "hoophouse " thread, bet they could use the idea for a little extra plant bed heating.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
a bare spot with nice green grass growing.
I'll watch for that <G>
BTW, will have GFI upstream to know if it is leaking.
Had considered running just one copper wire and some 'balin wair' for the neutral, but even too crude for me. ?
You'll be 6 sheds and one 'service' up on me.
The shed I do my 'dirtbag concrete counters' in is fed by a 12ga ext cord, from GFI recpt, OVER the ground... to shed which has a male plug that hangs out under the wall...
to shed which has a male plug that hangs out under the wall...
You da man! Amazing that some of youse guys beat me to da idear!
That way... if inspector was ever by for something else and dinged me on it, I could just unplug it and say "what power?"
It's like a big appliance...
I dont know you Mr Junkhound but i think we are sprit brothers.
I have 8 sheds but wont admit to burying electrical cords.
At any rate you are my Hero.
heck i did it but i bought a new to use just for that purpose. 2 yrs later still works fine only buried about 4 in with a shovel
You da man..
except for the NEW part of i bought a new to use just for that purpose...
I'll bite
"but insulation is 'mostly' intact."
So you will lose voltage to ground, increasing your power bill as you lose more of it.
Install a switch at the feed end of things so you can manually control that loss
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Install a switch
Ya dina' read all the posts ......will have plug on supply end, usually unplugged. <G>
Surprised this went to this many replies, been a lot of fun!
That's right, I replied to the first one off top of my head
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
DONT do it.
Extension cord material doesn't take very long to degrade in the soil. I've pulled up plenty where the insulation was brittle and badly cracked ... and a few where it was just GONE.
Good point about the soil.
When I lived in S. Orange County on the shakey side, I decided to revenovate the landscaping around the pool.
As I took out a bunch of these overgrown bushes, I found a metal conduit along the fenceline coming from the pool panel and going to...
Had to keep cutting for awhile. The oleanders had gotten quite big. But as I cut thru, the conduit disappeared (like it had disintegrated) and it's wires became very visible. A few more oleanders later, the insulation and then the copper wire had all dissolved, leaving a direct charge into the soil.
Later, as I heard from the city, the levels of nitrates in the soil would eat almost any metal. They would only approve plastic conduits outside.
I'm lost on how it's worse for the kids to see an old ragged cord on the ground and not touch it ...
as opposed to hide an unprotected cord in the dirt so they can cut it with a shovel?
tell me again why burying it is gooder?
I'm thinking cord on a spool near the power ... and just unroll it when U actually need to power the shed.
too easy?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
an unprotected cord
not unprotected, gonna put a bunchof old tires in the trench over it <G>
You know you are going to forget where you placed the wire, forget you left it plugged in and start another hole for something.
I was trenching for a proper PVC encased feed to a customers garage and managed to get my hind end zapped through a layer of sweat soaked pants. Happened at least three times before I realized it wasn't the wasps flying around in and out of the trench but the bare , energized wires from the current <wow, good pun> feed to the garage. They were right at the edge of the trench. Invisible in the dirt.
Wasted a whole can of wasp spray for nothing.
yes you should definitely do it, make sure not to insulate any broken insuation and run a ground directly from the hot wire to your nuts
run a ground directly from the hot wire to your nuts
Prolly would not feel anything, the ground connected to the hot would already have tripped some upstream breaker <G>
k then just run a wire from hot (meaning directly to the energiized buss bar to your sensitive parts------------whats the use--- I get so sick of
FWIW, - are feet considered 'sensitive'? I once did get chastized by company safety folks for putting both feet in separate tubs of salt water and turning up a variac till my feet shook - Trying to disprove some ridiculously low voltage safety requirements. Violated human experimentation rules and all that, would have been OK if not on company time <G>
Art, Disneyland in the 60s had a gizmo with 2 knobs to hold onto.
current would go up and straighten your arms out.
Ever see one of those & what were they?
When I took my kids there in the 70s they were gone.
Joe H
They were electrical shock apparatus, typically with a 10 mA current limit.
Once pacemakers became relatively common in the late 1960s, the liability risk became too high.
"Art, Disneyland in the 60s had a gizmo with 2 knobs to hold onto.
current would go up and straighten your arms out.
Ever see one of those & what were they?
When I took my kids there in the 70s they were gone."
No, you just must have missed them because I saw one there in '84. A couple of blank faced teens were taking turns holding the handles. I thought maybe it measured grip strength, put my money in, and let out a yelp. I wanted to complain - thought it was broken. What kind of strange mind puts a torture device in an amusement park? Those kids tricked me. They didn't even flinch. Little psychopaths.
Damn, I used to be one of those blank faced teens.
Joe H
Tubs of salt water and a variac? Sounds like something out of Dr Mengele's handbook.
actually would not have tripped anything upsteam until grounded Am I correct?
Just feed it with a GFI from the house so when it goes bad it'll pop the GFI. You might get a year out of it if your're lucky, then again it might go forever. My chicken house has about 200' of miscellaneous cords fed off a GFI down my property line and the only conduit is where it runs through the 8" drainpipe under the driveway and it's been fine for two years other than popping the GFI when we get a lightning storm.
I'm building a dance studio for my wife out in the pasture and the inspector noticed my wiring on the chicken house and said "I'd rather not see that next time I'm here."
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
"I'd rather not see that next time I'm here."
LOL
Have not had so much fun replying to comments since the "smashed car hood shed roof" thread.
Did you get some dark sunglasses to give him for his next visit..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
You're building a dance studio, and your wife is out in the pasture?
You may want to unplug the cord prior to soldering it.
Regards,
Don King, boxing promoter
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
You may want to unplug the cord prior to soldering it.
Cant do that, need the cord to power the soldering gun ! Not to worry, it's a transformer isolated weller gun, an' I'll hold the solder by the plastic spool.
:)
At least you are putting some thought into it!
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
I had a weller with a grounded tip, and once started to solder a live circuit. Blew my tip off. Still miss it. Now I'm more carefull. Just one of the benefits of being an old crotchety fart.
Congratulations!
SteveinCleveland receives the much coveted
MrT/brownbagg OneLiner Award.
Saaalute!View Image View ImageSomewhere between nowhere and goodbye