Lookin’ for some feedback. It looks as though I may have an opportunity to bid on a rather large job. I’m wondering if I should even bother investigating.
Here’s the deal. Ran into a fellow contractor in town today. He’s a friend of mine….we often hand jobs off to one another. I do things he doesn’t or when he’s available and I’m not……that sorta thing. Real breif conversation with him today…we were passing on the road. He tells me of another contractor….mason, landscaping…… who’s got 102 decks to build. He’s looking for estimates. That’s it…end of conversation.
Decks are one of the things I do that my buddy doesn’t…..he often passes them on to me.
For those who don’t know….I’m a residential remodeler. General and custom carpentry. I’ve a small crew when need be, but often work alone. I may build a half dozen or so decks a year. That’s it. Not set up for such a large scale job.
What I’m wondering is, should I even consider looking to step into this? It’s nothing I’ve ever desired in the past. At this point I have very little information…..basically what I’ve told you, is what I know. I could put a few guys on and keep us all busy with this for a while….but I’m actually looking to get smaller….not bigger.
But I also don’t want to dismiss such a steady paycheck.
I’ve got a lot to think about and alot of questions to ask. Figgered I’d start here. Any of you do anything like this? What should I be looking out for? What should I be looking into?
TIA as always.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Replies
Hey Jd,
I did that for a while for a couple of builders. They have a tough time finding competant guys to do that kind of thing--tends to be flybynight kinda guys that will offer a rediculously low price and then botch it on them. Most on a project that size don't mind paying a bit more (profit to you) to have a pro do it.
Just remember with large builders you are often the last to get paid--check references--credit if you can--ask around. Better still, count on not getting your last payment and still having profit in the job.
Secondly--make sure it is a "b" crew that you throw together and train for a week or two (price that in). Loyalty and protocol are necessary traits in these guys--or they will have the contract.
Putting all your eggs in one client's basket means scrambled eggs.
Keep the other part of your business going just like always.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Thanks for the input....greatly appreciated!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I'm actually looking to get smaller....not bigger.
You just answered your own question.
Any large builder will have 100 decks to bid on in any given year, so if that's what you want this won't be the only deal in town, unless you're in a small town.
Cheers,
Don
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Thanks Don.....setting my own schedule has always been a major factor in my having my own business. A project like this one would certainly negate that for the time being.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Of course, if the decks pay enough it's much easier to justify in the short term. Good luck and just make sure you'll be happy financially after it's over if it's not the type of situation you want long term.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I agree with Catskinner and Lawrence. (not that I disagree with anyone else)
After doing a new construction stint once (from remodelling) it is a bi**ch to settle back into the remodelling (word of mouth from homeowners).Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
After doing a new construction stint once (from remodelling) it is a bi**ch to settle back into the remodelling (word of mouth from homeowners).
Actually, that's one of the "redirections" I'm currently considering regarding the business. I started a thread not too long ago in which I mentioned a desire to get away from the contracting types of jobs and act more as a subcontractor. My area is somewhat overwhelmed by General Contracting outfits. I often find myself bidding jobs against contractors who I know, respect, and actually work with from time to time.
I don't know that new construction is where I want to be headed though.
Thanks for the input. Ya gots me thinkin'!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Hey JD,Decks can be a blessing and they can be a curse. I built decks and screened porches for Archadeck of Charlotte for 4 years. I started off working alone and it took about 2 days to complete a 12x16 deck, average height 3ft. Having my son help cut the time in half and increased my profit. I might add that I was just over 50 years old when I started with them. After my son graduated High School. he worked with me full time and we had a lot of success pleasing customers and the Franchise owners. But we got to be known around town as "The Deck Guys". Since I left Archadeck, to contract a remodel job that came up, I have realized that a lot of good remodel jobs never got offered to me because everyone thought of me as the "Deck Guy" Now Remodel Jobs are flowing my way. Have''nt built a deck in over 2 yeaars.I seems to me that you could manage the 100 decks by hiring a competent carpenter/helper team and checking on them regular. Good Luck.InTheCleftOfHisHand
ford
Thanks Bloodad......Getting a crew rolling and jumping in from time to time throughout is an idea I've considered.
Your input is greatly appreciated.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
<<Actually, that's one of the "redirections" I'm currently considering regarding the business. I started a thread not too long ago in which I mentioned a desire to get away from the contracting types of jobs and act more as a subcontractor. My area is somewhat overwhelmed by General Contracting outfits. I often find myself bidding jobs against contractors who I know, respect, and actually work with from time to time.>>Depending upon your own preference and the needs of the local market, you might be on to something.I did the same thing you are describing, and it worked well for me.My recent background (briefly) was working as a site super and project manager for medium sized builders, then I went out on my own as a GC/builder. As it turned out, that was not what the market was asking for.When I realized how much trouble I was having, I spent some time in a specific analysis of the practical difficulties I faced as a GC. Once I felt like I had a clear idea of what was wrong with my business, I asked all of the similarly-situated GCs that I knew if they were having the same kind of problems. The answer was a resounding "yes."There was my niche. I have never looked back except in gratitude.Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)
Sounds like that transition worked well for you.
Part of the reason I'm even giving this consideration in the first place, is that its a step in that direction. While being someones "deck guy" aint what I have in mind....being someones "go to guy" is precisely what I'm looking for.
Thanks again Cat!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
JD, I'll add only one thing to think about if you are still considering this deal. Make sure you don't imply to the builder that YOU will be the supervising carpenter on the deck building crew. Don't get your self in a situation that demands you, and only you to be the person running that deck crew. Make sure that they know that you have competent help and that you have enough faith in them to turn the job over completely.
Around here, we would have some builders that would resoundly reject that immediately on the grounds that they wouldn't want to be paying a "needless" layer of "overhead". These types of builders aren't really looking for a competent subcontractor. They really are looking to find some carpenter that will run a crew and accept all the risk and responsibility for wages. They usually find what they are looking for.
If you are hooked up with this type of builder and attempt to delegate to your crew, you might find yourself having a lot of difficulities if you try to do another job and leave a crew behind.
If your builder is just looking for a good subcontractor, someone that gets the job done, then this is a great opportunity to teach a protege for the first ten jobs, then make a decent profit on the next 90 with only minimal supervision. Just make sure of the relationship that the builder wants before you set up your plans to do so.
blue
Hadn't looked at it from that angle.....thanks blue.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Blue, that's a good point. I'm running into the same thing this year. I think it's one of the hazards of selling ourselves instead of our business.Too many parents make life hard for their children by trying, too
zealously, to make it easy for them. -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, poet,
dramatist, novelist, and philosopher (1749-1832)
JD,
Lawrence said;
<<Putting all your eggs in one client's basket means scrambled eggs.
Keep the other part of your business going just like always.>>
Whatever you decide to do, those are the words that a small business will live or die by. That ranks with the wisest advice I've seen here.
It is very dangerous to let any one entity become more than 50% of your clientele. I'm not saying it should never be done, but it should be approached with great caution.
I have seen some really tough business difficulties come out of that situation, and it doesn't even require bad intent by anyone to end up with bad results.
Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success.
-Albert Schweitzer, philosopher, physician, musician, Nobel laureate
(1875-1965)
Since it was Friday when you first posted, Im assuming that you havent found out much more info, but here are some things that Im thinking. 102 decks seems like a lot, so Im making the assumption its for a subdivision/ developement. With that Im thinking that most of these decks are going to be carbon copies themselves. Same thing, different house. How many decks would it be before your burned out??? Dont want to be waking up in the morning, dreading having to work on another deck. Hopefully there would be enough variation to keep it interesting. You could also always keep trying to techniques/ operating procedures to make it more efficient/ better.
What more tools would you need/want to get to make it more efficient? Gas powered post hole digger?? Gas/electric concrete mixer? What will make the job easier??
Keep us posted, Im interested in how this ends up.
m2akita
Sounds like you're picturing pretty much what I'm envisioning.
Of course...we could both be way off the mark. I'll let you know as I get more details.
Thanks for the input.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements