Going to help a buddy try to run a router in a building adjacent to the one with the modem. Another guy ran some direct burial 6 pair (he buries for the telco). Is it feasible to put rj-45s on this and expect it to feed the router over about 110ft? I have some cat5 but the other is already in the pipe he put in earlier. The buildings are pretty close but metal skin and the wireless router does not seem to have the umpth when co-located.
I will take a look at ground/bond situation, probably not what it should be either.
Thanks
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Replies
The twist is important.
go wireless
The router in question is a wireless. He has a "high gain" ant in the window of the target building and the router in the first building but it isnt catching signal. Also he wants to use a laptop with built-in wireless in the back of the target building. I might be able to solve the first part (using the window ant with desktop in office) by relocating the router in the first building over to a window area but it would probably not feed to the laptop.
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Edited 4/15/2009 9:10 am ET by rasconc
You can, of course, always use a wireless repeater.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
That is what my electrician buddy who loaned me the stuff said. Interference may not be an issue but as Bill said the impedance may be the real issue.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
What is the color code on the wires of the cable you plan to use? If they are striped, that means it is probably cat5 and you should be ok. The max run is around 300 feet. The twist in the wires is to reduce crosstalk and external interference; the former is unimportant if there is only one signal in the entire cable.
"The twist in the wires is to reduce crosstalk and external interference; the former is unimportant if there is only one signal in the entire cable."Well 2 things. The twist, and other things, is also important to control the impedance and if it is wrong you can get reflections and distortion of the signal that run up the error rates.And I believe that in some mode the communication can be duplex. That is it transmits in one direction on one pair and the other direction on the other pair at the same time..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
The diagram I looked at shows one pair for trans and one for rec and if you are running two computers off the router it would surely be duplexing. Thanks
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
The twist does not affect impedance.
http://www.prc68.com/I/Zo.shtml
Will look, doubt if they use cat5 for the runs to houses from the pole, that is what is in the pipe. ThanksFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
You could try it and it might work. Worth a shot. You of course have to keep the wires consistent, pin-wise, from end to end (and ideally keep pairs paired), and you'd have to figure out how to make the connections with the odd-sized cable. (Probably punch-down female receptacles would be your best bet.)
There are (or were) (misnamed) "baluns" and/or active drivers available for driving ethernet signals over regular phone lines. I haven't looked recently, but I'm guessing they'd run you $100-200 for the pair.
I will look a little closer, only risk/investment is a couple of connectors. The Doctor Watts book shows using pins 1,2,3,6. Would modem to router be standard straight through or hub to hub?For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
If I remember right it is straight through..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Thanks, I found this site that sheds a whole lot of light on the issue. Sounds like I may have a chance.
http://www.derose.net/steve/guides/wiring/#dslFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
It would be standard straight-through, I'm pretty sure -- would only be different if the current cable between modem and router is a special "crossover" one, which seems pretty unlikely. (You can easily check by comparing the two ends of the existing cable to see if the wires are in the same color order on both ends -- if so it's NOT a crossover cable.)As stated, although the standard Cat5 cable is 8 wires you only need 4 -- two pair -- for standard 10/100BaseT.The impedance of the phone wiring should be reasonably close to correct -- Cat5 is basically an upgraded version of the Cat3 phone line standard, with less high-frequency loss and less crosstalk.It is important to get the pairing right, if you can figure it out.Here's the pinout:
http://pinouts.ru/Net/Ethernet10BaseT_pinout.shtml
The TX+ and TX- is one pair, and the RX+ and RX- is the other.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
>>>Another guy ran some direct burial 6 pair (he buries for the telco).
The IEEE spec all the way back to the CAT 3 days allows for 90 meters between devices as long as you are using 26 gauge solid UTP copper, so you should be OK. Even CAT 3 wire supports 10 megabits per second, which is more than a typical Internet connection will generate.
Scott.
Since you say the wireless is already there, you can get an outdoor antena. It cables from the router/modem. You can the hack the modem firmware and boost the output signal. The antena is $100 range.
Mine worked; but personally I prefer the security of wire.
Edited 4/15/2009 5:57 pm ET by jimcco
If you actually have conduit between the buildings, use the CAT3 to pull the CAT5 through. You will then have alot more networking options available, and are less likely to smoke some network gear and completely confuse anyone who tries to support this setup in the future. Network Printers, network backup, network scanners, these are becoming alot more common now.
If you don't have a conduit, just drag a hoe along the ground to bury the CAT5 just low enough so someone's not going to trip on it. Easy.
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Thanks to all for help/guidance. I did some research and the 6 pair should have done the job. It ended up to be about 180 ft after turns and all. I tried putting ends on the cat 3 6 pair and thought I had won the battle, got an internet light on the router but no log-in. Thought his laptop had a problem so tried mine. No go.
The "conduit" was 1/2 pvc from an old air comp. line ( I know that's bad), glued up and ran 1/2 conduit and the cat 5e. Problem solved. Started to run the cat 5 along the same path as the 6 pair cat 3 but it was zip tied to an old air line that just happened to have a 240v zipped to it.
Appreciate all the help. The two buildings are metal skinned and full of old cars, not a wireless happy zone. We used about 200 ft of wire and a few connectors. The owner is a bud who has a Bobcat, rollback, many other goodies, and is always ready to help. My offer for payment was a trip to Hooters all expenses paid. Life is good.
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Edited 4/15/2009 10:30 pm ET by rasconc
If the 6-pair was tied to the electric line that may have been the problem with your first attempt. With loosely twisted 6-pair the hum pickup in such a situation could have been a volt or more.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
My thoughts too! Hey it's over, the warranty is five years or 100 yards( bumper in street). We used to advertise 10yrs or wheels in the well for high performance aircraft repairs.
The 200 ft might have been close for cat 3 from what I read.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Thanks, but the "conduit" is under an asphalt drive and fortunately a straight line. I pulled the cat 3 out and ran tape through. A lot better feel for any strain than I would have had with the existing cable. As I put in the other post thanks to all and problem solved.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Hi rasconc,
I realize you've got your connection working now but I urge you to make certain you have surge/isolation protection on "both" ends of your cabling. Static charges from storms can easily run through your shallow buried cable and fry your equipment.
Got a new client years ago that was replacing a similiar setup 3 & 4 times every year. Office built on an old loamy soil farm and connected to their warehouse out back. I actually pulled fiber optic in their case but this isolated the buildings as glass doesn't conduct electricity.
If you have electrical storms in your area, you need to isolate the path on "both" ends.
Pedro the Mule - I get outa da field when it starts raining
Or at least make sure the router itself is grounded (run a separate wire to ground if it doesn't have a grounded plug). The router will "sacrifice" itself but you can reduce the chance of damage to any PCs that are directly connected to the router.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Thanks to both, will pass on to buddy who is kind of slack.(;-)For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.