Can an outlet be wired like this?(pic)
1000eyes
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
When wiring a standard wall outlet is it acceptable to place the wires under the screws as shown or must each wire have a loop?
Replies
I don't have the answer to your question, I'm sure someone here will be along to educate the both of us, but I would like to know where you got the giant wire and outlet?
<where you got the giant wire and outlet?>
It'sm that uh, "forefase"
Forrest
was wondering what might plug in to that outlet...
(shiver)
Absolutely not.
That's got to be the most half assed DIY shortcut I've ever seen.
It's OK to do it like that IF you have backwired outlets. But with backwired outlets you wouldn't be able to see the wire because there'd be a metal plate covering it, so that both sides of the wire are fully contacted.
IMO, it's silly to not use backwired outlets -- they provide a more reliable connection than any other standard scheme.
IMO, it's silly to not use backwired outlets -- they provide a more reliable connection than any other standard scheme.
What do you mean by "backwired outlets" - the ones with the hole in the back, that you just push the wire into?
If that's what you mean, I strongly disagree - those contacts do NOT make good contact and are a frequent source of electrical fires.
No, that's not what he meant. I think the ones you're referring to are called back-stabbed and I agree, they're awful.
Dan was referring to the kind where the wire slips into a hole and a screw is used to secure it. So far, I've only seen that kind on GFCI outlets, but I'm sure they're readily available on regular receptacles.
Geez, everybody around here types faster than me!
I'm gonna get a complex.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I have also seen them on timers.
Uh-oh, here we go again on this one.
DanH is referring to a connection made from the back of the outlet - screw is loosened, wire slips between two contacts and is clamped in place by tightening the screw. The most commonly seen application of this type of connection is in the back of wall mounted GFCI's - good system.
The lousy outlets you are referring to - where you just shove the stripped wire into a hole in the back and hope for a contact are usually referred to as a "back stab" connection - and you are right, they will stab you in the back! DanH and just about everybody else here, would agree.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Those good back wire connections are also on the "commercial grade" outlets.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
I know, but I figured the most likely place for woodturner9 to have seen them was on a GFCI.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
"Those good back wire connections are also on the "commercial grade" outlets"They start on Spec grade device. Although I notice that some places (Lowes online) miss uses the term.The order is residential ($0.39), specification ($2.00), commercial ($5.00), industrial (???).Then the specialized such as hospital grade.Also note that they don't all come with this feature.For example in the spec grade, 120v receptacles come in 4 flavors.15 amp
15 amp backwire
20 amp
20 amp backwire.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"What do you mean by "backwired outlets" - the ones with the hole in the back, that you just push the wire into?"NO!Backwire have pressure plate that is controlled by the side screws. It is only available on spec grade and higher series. All GFCI's that I have seen have it. Similar to what many breakers and industrial connectors.You are thinking of backstab connections. They are only available on residential grade devices..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Backwire have pressure plate that is controlled by the side screws. It is only available on spec grade and higher series. All GFCI's that I have seen have it.
FWIW, I haven't seen this connection system. The GFCIs I have been using have conventional screw terminals or pigtails. Maybe it varies with local convention.
You don't see the pressure plates.They are internal.All you see is are holes in the back. But there is slot/hole for a release tool as it does not have the spring fingers for connection, but rahter the pressure plate.Tighten up the side screw and it clamps in the wire.Look at any current production GFCI.I only saw a one GFCI with wire leads. And it was apparently made around 1980..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
What ever happened to those receptacles with the little holes by the screws. You could take your stripped 12ga wire and stick the straight wire in the hole and just wrap it around the screw (and then tighten the screw). I liked them because they saved one step and didn't cost any more.
I don't think I've seen 'em for several years now. Maybe I need to go someplace other than Lowes/Menards.
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Yeah, those were good at least in theory. Also, some had a little tang sticking out that you could hook the end of the wire on and do the same thing. Haven't seen either for awhile, though now I always buy backwired (when available) anyway.Seems to me that the "standard grade" outlet should have no exposed metal -- just holes in the back for backwiring, and a small hole for a torx bit to tighten the screw. Would be significantly safer than the current units.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
To answer the original question: Hell no, you can't wire an outlet that way. Well, you can but no inspector would pass it. The wire should be stripped about 9/16", and must have a j-bend in the end passing clockwise around the screw, under the screw head. While the code will allow using the push-ins, and also allows one to wire thru the device (to the next device on the circuit), I would never do either. First, the push-in springs will eventually come loose, making a good poke likely for the next guy removing the device, as well as the distinct possibility of fire. Second, a failure or short in whatever is plugged into the outlet could compromise the ground path downline, presenting a danger where it wouldn't be apparent. Best practice is to run pigtails to each device. I save romex scraps, strip them and cut them the same length as my smaller pliers (7"), and keep them on hand when wiring. If you're wiring in pipe or flex with THHN stranded, the solid wire pigtails are much easier to attach to a device than the stranded wire; at the end of a run in THHN stranded, I use crimp-on terminals instead of wrapping the wire around the screw.
With electrical work, it really IS safety first, and you should work with "the long haul" in mind. No quickie shortcuts, etc.
"Second, a failure or short in whatever is plugged into the outlet could compromise the ground path downline, presenting a danger where it wouldn't be apparent"How?Are you talking about the equipment grounding conductor or the grounded conductor?.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
No.
Form the correct loop, close loop around screw and tighten screw.
No, Jalden's post is correct. Form loop, tighten screw.
Although forming the loop in that giant wire may be difficult - conduit bender maybe? ;-)
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Never
I was thinking rebar bender, myself...
and the screwdriver must be 6' long!
Rebar bender -- That'll work!
How many guys will we need for the screwdriver?
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Even the outlet shown without the loops is done diffrently for each wire.The left hand wire is on the left side of screw and the right side wire is on the right side.
This outlet would only be safe "marginally" at the equator where the corilius effect doesnt exist.
Well, of course one wire is on the left and one wire is on the right - otherwise the wire on the right hand screw won't jam against the plastic housing when you tighten the screw!
Mechanical tip: In order to insure complete contact with the plastic housing along the stripped length of wire, be sure to hold the wire shown on the right firmly in place while tightening the screw. If not held securely the wire will tend to back out from under the screw head making inferior contact with the plastic housing. ;-)
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Yeah, there definitely is a problem getting even #12 to wrap around the terminals on an outlet.When you think about it it's really kind of silly that outlets are still made that way. Breaker panels all have setscrew connections now, as does just about any piece of commercial grade gear. You just see the old, nasty screw connections on switches, outlets, and the occasional lighting timer or such. Granted, it makes the difference between a 27-cent outlet and a $1.50 one, but (unless you're backstabbing) I can't believe that inefficiencies of installation don't jack that 27 cents up to about three bucks more than the better device.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
What screwdriver? It looks like a 1/2" ratchet should fit pretty well.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
a 1/2" rachet and a cheater bar...
;->)
Or my Snap-On 1/2" drive impact wrench.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Don't you just love those combo screws - fits slotted, Phillips or Robertson and will cam out easily on all of them.
My philosophy is that if you don't have the right screwdriver, perhaps you shouldn't be mucking around where you don't belong.
>>combo screws - fits slotted, Phillips or Robertson and will cam out easily on all of them.<<
My order for trying to tighten these 1) Robertson then 2) wide blade slotted screwdriver then 3) Phillips.
Loosening is usually fairly easy with a wide blade slotted - because the original installer did not get them very tight.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
If you want to do it like that rather than hooking the wire around the screw, I believe that the wire was supposed to be installed under the brass colored contact plate rather than on top.
That would be "back wired", and requires outlets with the feature.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Right - I saw some the other day that were designed as I described. I think they looked just like the OP's pic.
so you saw some just like the pic, where were you, Giants-R-Us?
If you look closely at those receptacels (you can kinda see if by the right wire) there is an STRAIGHT indentation in metal plate where the wire lays.
They appear to be made that way specifically to be wire the way that they are shown.
However, I have never seen any documentation of this. And when I am working on one that is wired like that I change to loops.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.