My wife is looking for black kitchen cabinets. A couple of cabinet makers have given her samples of oak stained with black stains but they end up just looking dark brown.
Can one get a true black finish without going to paint or to the thermofoil products.
Any ideas appreciated
Thanks
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Naturally dark woods with an ebony stain will come out black. Don't know how cost effective it would be for cabinets, but I made a coffee table and used walnut with an ebony stain. Till this day they are as close to black as you will get with wood.
In short, yes.
Dyes, or dye plus black toner....... if you like, to get the look she desires.
One particular dye that could be used in this instance would be a combination of iron sulfate and alum. The grain of red oak, for instance, could be filled with an off-white paste filler...... and you can imagine the end result. If you wanted dead black all over, omit the decorative filler. If you wanted red grain instead, use a red filler. You get the idea, I'm sure.
Before resorting to hunting down the above combination of ingredients for the dye, you could try some black aniline dye and if necessary shoot some black base concentrate from Mohawk Finishing over the top as a toner. This procedure would mean no colored grain filler though. It would be black also. You'd dissolve the base concentrate in some lacquer thinner for application. This procedure would work fine if you intend a nitro or a cat-lacquer for the clear coats. (I wouldn't advise the nitro for a kitchen)
If you'd like to use something different for the clear coats, then I'd use Mohawk's universal colorant as the toner.
Bear in mind that if you use a conversion finish of any type (like cat-lacquer) for the final clear coats that it is not reliably "recoatable" in the future if you eventually start wearing thru and wish to add some more clear finish. A water-borne poly may serve you better in this regard. Non-yellowing and recoatable in the future with a bit of prep work.
You'd need an account with Mohawk to purchase and minimum orders are substantial these days by the time you add shipping and handling. Hopefully one of the custom shops you frequent already has an account with Mohawk and orders regularly. Maybe they already have some black on the shelf. Or maybe you won't need anything from Mohawk to get the look she would like.
Try Homestead Finishing's site for dyes. Don't hesitate to call and get their advice as to which product is the most likely to yield what you desire.
Edit: Yes, I realize you aren't doing the finishing yourself, although I spoke as if you are. Just trying to advise you on the particulars as it doesn't sound like the folks you've contacted so far have any experience with this. Sounds like they only know about stains. And so, you may have to guide them thru the proper products, combination of products and choice of clear coats.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 3/8/2005 11:46 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
Edited 3/9/2005 12:00 am ET by GOLDHILLER
How much are you willing to pay?
Ebony (the lumber) is black as black can get. VERY expensive, however. Madagascar Ebony is g-o-r-g-e-o-u-s (has slight brown streaking in it)... but now we are talking even more $$. http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/Inventory/ebony.htm
Wenge... with a real dark stain would be very close to black. But again, open your wallet. Good news, though... about 1/4 the cost of ebony.
If you want to give her a heart attack (a good one)... have her look at some purple-heart after it has darkened. VERY dark wood (after darkening)... with a deep purple hue at close range. MUCH more reasonable price... but the fabricator had better know EXACTLY what they are doing to get it to come out right (very hard wood to work with).
Now that I think about it... at $50+ a bd ft for ebony... $17ish for wenge... I would say that you would be well served to make sure that if you choose any of the above... the cab maker better well know what they are doing (and have a good sharpener guy on retainer)!! LOL
http://www.wellborn.com/products/midnight.asp
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It's paint though ... why's that a bad thing?
black is black.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Are you getting a local cabinet maker to fabricate the cabinets or are you getting them from a factory? How much of a role will you have in selecting the color? We have done black stained cabinets with a clear finish. Came out really nice, but there were a lot of trial and error days. I spoke with the fine folks at FW Lockwood and got it all figured out.
What type of wood is your wife looking at and what style of cabinets? If the wood has any red in the graining you neeed to add some green to the black. This avoids the brown result.
F
Can one get a true black finish without going to paint or to the thermofoil products.
An "oriental" black finish is not very common in the cabinet "biz." Never understood why, it would be relatively easy to do using modern process finishing. Would be even easier with black melamine--but you are excluding thermoform.
I wouldn'r want to bet that the companies that do interior paint do that many in black, either.
The "how" tends to be a little undercomplicated--except in the details--if you add sufficient lampblack to your finsihing material, you get a black finish. The details, as goldhiller already pointed out, and could elaborate on more, are what determines the result. IIRC, the traditional oriental black laquer finish uses a clear stain with lampblack, then lampblacked lacquer is then "french finished" over that.
Just the sort of thing I'd much rather have my finishing consultant rig my spraybooth for, instead.
One method of ebonizing wood is to use black India ink from Staples or Office Depot or someplace like that. Just apply the ink to the wood.
I had a cabinet shop next to another cabinet dealer, he had a set of beautiful black cabinets in his show room. Only thing was in all the years he had them no one ever bought a set of black cabinets. Think about the resell value.
Had an ex-boss that we made a home office for. Used maple and he ebonized the unit.
Came out very nice. I dont think I would do oak in black unless you dont mind the wood grain showing through.
Doug
The Italian company Snaidero used to manufacture very sleek high-gloss black lacquer cabinetry. I have no idea whether or not they're still around.
I trimmed out a house that had deep red cabinets, an incredible automotive type finish...and on a lot of curvey cabinets, very sexy...came from Canada, go figgur<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
billy
I built a set of cabs for a bar owner down here in Austin that was lip-stick red. Then they used chrome everywhere!
At first I thought it was kinda goofy looking until they had it all outfited, kinda retro looking. Sorta grew on you.
Doug