Hello everyone got a question I just bought a new place and noticed the detatched garage floor is sagging a little approx. 1″ to 2″ the ceiling is drywalled and walls are insulated and drywalled. what is the best way to deal with this is it possible to run a tji or glu-lam down the middle under the ceiling and box it in and tie it in on the end walls to help carry this load. This is a work shop and I really don’t want to put in lally’s and block my work area.
Thanks all
Replies
I don't understand. How is reinforcing the ceiling going to help with the floor sagging?
sorry about that the ceiling is sagging a bit it there is a second floor on the garage and that is what I was calling the floor but it has limited space for storage that is what i was calling the floor. the actual floor is concrete
Roof trusses or stick built? Loading requirements? Span lengths?
We need details, not to mention a little punctuation to help decipher your posts.
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Sorry Iam a new guy, It is stick built the building is 24'wide and 28' long. I will be using the upstairs for storage nothing too heavy. The roofing joists are 2x12 16oc not sure what the ceiling joist are they are covered by decking upstairs, and drywall on the ceiling downstairs. Hope this helps
Most lumber yards that deal in LVLs will be able to spec the beam size you need if you provide them with the proper information. ( span, joist size, load it will be carrying)
I would cut a hole on the sheetrock to determine the ceiling joist size. If you are sure the joists are dimensional lumber, you can just poke a dowel or stiff wire up until it hits the plywood, mark the wire, and figure it out from that.
BTW, you want an LVL, not a TJI.
Edited 1/3/2005 9:43 pm ET by Shep
Shep I took your advice and called the local lumber yard. And they said I need 4 24" lvl's to go across the garage with no lallys and if I used one lally I could get away with 4 9 1/2" LVL's. Also did poke a hole through the ceiling and the joists were 2x10s I could also see what looked like solid blocking and strapping every 16". The upstairs is also decked with 3/4" tongue and grove plywood. Not sure which way to go. What would you do if you were in my shoes.
Thank you
Did you price the 24" LVLS ??? They're probably over $10 a foot PER PLY. You might ask them to look at something like a 3 ply 11 7/8" LVL. That might be a bit cheaper then a 4 ply 9 1/2" LVL.
Wherever I go, it seems the world's worst drivers have followed me there.
Like Mike said, set the post to shorten the span
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Posts and beam.
You really need to make the determination of what you want.
Is having 1 post really all that much of a big deal, or do you really want that open floor?
Also, those 24" LVLs are going to be a lot more work to put up than the 9 1/2".
And remember that the ends of the LVLs need to be supported down to the sill, or something equally solid.
and... if ( IF ) you make them into a flush beam... they'll still be 14 " to 16" below the ceiling..
but you will probably frame them below... so you will lose 24 " of headroom ????????Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Shep the price on the 24 LVLS came to $ 1300.00 and the price for the 9 1/2s was $350.00. So I guess I have to weigh it all out and figure out what will work best I hate to give up the space to columns but the extra money is a lot right now.
Thank you for taking the time and sharing the knowledge
Cape
Someone else here already mentioned a steel I beam. That might be another solution.
Steel should be cheaper than the 24"LVLs, and should carry the load with a relatively small size, probably somewhere between the 2 LVL sizes.
Its drawbacks are that its heavier than LVLs, and requires more effort for installation and finishing.
At this point, your head is probably starting to spin with all the choices. All will work; its just a matter of what you need.
As Shep said, you need an LVL, not I-joists. Talk to a lumberyard near you and see what they can come up with. They'll be familiar with your local codes and loading requirements.
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cape.. u want to support a 24' wide floor with a 28' beam supported only at it's ends..?
foggedaboutit.. resign yourself to at least one lally column.....
what you want to do can be done... but i don't think you'll want to do what it takesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I will be using the upstairs for storage nothing too heavy.
I'd say that what is there already is "too heavy".....You'll probably need multiple LVLs or a honkin big steel beam, and you'll probably need at least one post to make it workable. If open floor space is an issue, play around with the idea of either one post in the middle, or two posts spaced out at maybe the 1/4 and 3/4 positions, if you want the open space in the middle of the floor area....you might be able to stretch the posts out to the 1/5 and 4/5 postitions, so your open floor space is more like 16 ft x 24 ft. It's a balancing act between the open span and the size of the beam.
The cheapest way to get the support you need with the minimum reduction in shop headroom and no posts is going to be a steel I-beam, packed out with wood to take the joists on hangers, set flush. It can probably be done with steel that is 16" deep, so you lose 7" at the beam. If you do a flush beam, you also may need to put in tension ties across the beam to keep things together. The ceiling joists may be acting to prevent wall spread from rafter loads.Getting an engineer involved might be money well spent. Do it right; do it once.Bill
Cape,
joists sagging 1-2" in a "new place" are not sagging a little, though I'm sure you know that by now. You may want to find a steel beam. Get some jack posts and put something under them to spread out the load, crank the floor up very slowly, like maybe 1/8" every other day and you may be able to save yourself from redrywalling everything, though I'd say it's not likely. You'll have to crank this up enough to allow you to get the beam in place.
You may need to add support (concrete) under your posts to take the additional load.
Now, you need to look over the rest of whatever you bought from whoever built this place. I think you're in for a lot of bad surprises.
Sorry,
Dog
please think outside the box here,
I won't take the time to work out what size you'll need but you might be able to use wide and thick beams as well to carry the load.. the type of wood available will affect capacity. For example I was able to use an 8x14 ash beam in one location (with a 200% safety factor that a pine or most other woods couldn't carry) It is true that a thicker beam (in height) will carry more load than a wide beam but the additional width does add some strength.
to ensure additional capacity I'll set up temporary lally columns so that the green timber doesn't take an undesirable set during the drying period.. (basically one heating cycle or over the winter).
You could also place a beam 1/3rd of the way out from each wall. You'd end up with two beams, each supporting much smaller loads, so they would not be as tall or as costly. You'd still end up with 2 lally columns, one under each beam. If your aim is to preserve open space in the middle of the shop, this might be a feasible option. You might be able to place some of your machinery next to each lally, each of which would give you an easy route for the wiring, and a place to hang overhead lighting. Sometimes the answer lies in rethinking the materials storage/flow in a shop.