Currently have three 25-28 year olds framing up a storm on what will become 3 story house with an 8/12 roof. Man, they get a lot done every day, but I definitely have my hands full keeping one step ahead.
Anyways, we are fast approaching roof framing and I want to do what I can to help them get through each day safely.
We will use a combination of pump jacks, ladders, possibly a telescoping bucket for siding and exterior wall details, but what about sheathing the roof? Standard fall protection harnesses and ridge anchors? Retractable cables?
What personal fall protection equipment do you use? What do you prefer? What do you try to avoid?
Thanks.
Replies
How about renting scaffolding that runs the length of the house to the height of the facia? Do one half the house, move scaffolding. When sheathing is in place, use scaffolding for the roofing, facia, soffit and siding.
No ropes, no ladders, no pump jacks.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
bump, i'm sure more of you use fall protection..... right?
I'm just sayin'
I've got a 'roofer's kit' which I use a lot on ladders or up high. It's the body harness, a tear-out lanyard fall arrestor deal, a rope grab and rope.
It works fine if you'll be working in one spot for a while and don't have to move around like you do with framing and sheathing.
I've tried using it while climbing around on a roof--thru trusses and whatnot and it was all but impossible.
I would say the only way this getup would work for framing is if you had the retractable unit rather than the rope. The rope is just too much in the way--you're constantly stepping over (or onit which is really a slip hazard) it or moving it, or getting it unsnagged on something...
With framing, you've usually got something to hold on to. Once the roof is sheathed then get the fall protection out.
my 2cents.
I don't think it is correct to use the shock absorbing lanyard with the rope grab, I am absolutely sure you don't use the shock absorbing lanyard with the retractable (yo-yo).
The reason is the the shock absorbing lanyard is a small bungee cord, and it may give you a little bounce which causes the retractable to catch then let go, catch then let go, etc etc all the way down. You are supposed to hook the retractable directly to harness, or with a short extender strap that IS NOT shock absorbing.
In the rope grab situation the rope you should be using itself has a little give to it, and slows the sudden stop to a more gentle application of the brakes. The shock absorbing lanyard could cause the grab to slip. Granted it should work, but it could be better.
What I do is use a mountain climbing harness hooked directly to the rope grab via carabineer, and I remember the special rope I bought for that was very expensive. If you want a full body fall arrest I think you are better off with a cable or strap extender that would be attached at one end to an anchor and the other to a shock absorbing lanyard. You just have to make sure of the length so it stops you on the slope of the roof before you go over.
I don't like the yo-yo's because of their tendency to catch and stop when you don't expect/want it to and boom like a dog on a short leash I am jerked off my feet. All of them get in the way when you are working and require patience and attention.
"I don't think it is correct to use the shock absorbing lanyard with the rope grab, I am absolutely sure you don't use the shock absorbing lanyard with the retractable (yo-yo)."
I understand your logic--I used to do some climbing too.
However, I'm using my getup as it came in it's pre-packaged kit, like this:
http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=16474
or this:
http://www.amazon.com/AO-Safety-94020-Professional-Protection/dp/B000S98C6C
which has a crappy nylon 3-stranded rope, a rope grab, a harness, and the 'arrestor' unit in question.
That may also be how OSHA wants it.
Not sure.
I dunno though, I can tell you I wouldn't want to fall into the grab, directly onto what seems like a pretty inflexible rope.
I think in this scenario, an owner is going to want his employees to use what comes in the kit, or what is sanctioned by OSHA rather than what, might work better based on peripheral experinence.
(I should be selling insurance with that answer ey?)
One basic rule covers all, the Terra Firma rule.When setting up ladders, scaffolding, guard rails, etc, repeat this over and over again: "The more Firmer, the less Terror".AitchKay
The shock absorbing lanyard must be used with rope grab. Per the safety man on last job.
Force at the end of regular lanyard over 2000 pounds, with shock abosorbing about 270. This with a 10 ft drop with 210 pound weight.
One alternative is to buy a guardrail system that fastens to your eave edge and sub facia. These accept 2 horizontal 2x rails and extend the length of the eaves. We have used these on 3 story roofs on commercial projects.
They are adjustable for different roof pitches. An 8/12 is walkable in decent weather, and with the guard rail to stop anyone who does fall or slip you gain a good comfort level. You still have unrestricted movement and no ropes to trip over. I got ours thru ABC supply who I believe sells online.
We nail off the first row of plywood from the top side, standing in the trusses, then attach the brackets and continue up.
I thought this was about the new Trojans in Autumn colors...
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion"
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
jim..we would stage both eaves with pump jacks ( alumapole )
set the joists from there...
set the first row of sheathing
put on our i&w first row
set roof jacks and move up the roof
you can move the pole brackets onto the roof and work the corniceMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Me, too. I remember the time I swerved to avoid a child and fell off the couch...AitchKay
Ropes and harness attached to PERMANENTLY mounted super anchors once the trusses/rafters are up. Roof jacks on as soon as the first lower course of sheathing is on. If I remember correctly, OSHA requires that you roll trusses from scaffolding. Scaffolding can be erected on the interior of the wall and must be three feet below the top plate. I always look at the anchors as cheap insurance for the trades that follow.
I don't work on houses anymore but ALL the contractors here have very rigid policies concerning FP, most of them require 100% tie-off which is a special lanyard with two hooks for attaching to anchor points, along with retractable lifelines...
in your case I would suggest a good training program explaining how to properly use the equipment (mfrs. have videos available) and a written policy that must include the consequences of NOT wearing the stuff when it is required, IOW there is zero tolerance for non compliance and you WILL be fired
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My favorite method was a telehandler. Unlike boom trucks or manlifts they aren't restricted to 500# capacity. You can put a work platform on them and all the plywood you'll need. PLus several workers. When you are putting plywood down you can saw it over the work platform and the sawdust falls through the grate and not on the roof causing a potential slip area.
That plus the work platform rasied as you work means the guys can be extremely productive since a fall means a drop of 4 feet at worst.. Sort of like putting on the first layer of siding rather than being 40 feet in the air..
Belt and suspender approach used by some was to tie their safety line to the back of the work platform. Two advantages of that method.. it's behind them so they aren't constantly tripping over it and putting plywood on it.. and second it shortens the falling distance should they somehow fall forward.
Newer telehandlers with swing carriages can pick up the work platform on the end and thus reach into narrow areas to work safely.
One climber/ nailer on a harness (kits from ABC supply work well, we have two.) cut man hands off to two guys who pass the sheathing through the roof to the climber/ nailer who yells out dimensions and gets handed the parts to nail down. Works good for us.
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
"What do you try to avoid"
I try to avoid falling off the roof.
Sorry for being a smartypants.
I always thought it was "hitting the ground protection" they needed to work on....
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
Thanks for the advice everyone.
After a bit of shopping found a good price on some used aluminum pump jacks today. Hopefully they'll be as solid at 30' as everyone says. Even looks like the wall braces I currently use with my wooden poles will work with these, we'll see.
Lot's of used equipment available these days, kind of sad.
Jim, whenever possible I set up scaffolding up to the eave. It's 5' wide and the length of the fascia. In theory if you slide off the roof you will land on the scaffold. Once we start sheeting the roof I start adding roof jacks and toe boards if it's 8:12 or steeper. For better or worse I own a pile of scaffolding and about 50 roof jacks now. If it keeps someone from breaking their back then it will have been worth it.
Yeah, that's our plan, except with pump jacks and harnesses.
Even just the improvement in workers' comfort level makes the investment worthwhile in my opinion. I've work scared before, almost terrified, and I try my best not to put other people through stuff like that. It's just one of those responsibilities I try to take to nurture the next generation of carpenters.
What Mike said is what I do plus...I did a big job on this mansion up the road from me a few months ago and part of it was an 80sq rip and reroof. The guys I used never had one scaffold. The ONLY piece of equiptment they used was one ladder to get up on the roof and ropes and harnesses bolted to the ridge beam. Was pretty amazing to watch. They flew through the job. The entire rip and reroof took about 6 or so guys 7 days to do...and that was in 90 deg heat!
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"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit". abbie
"Give them what they want" abbie
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"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit". abbie
"Give them what they want" abbie
Edited 10/31/2008 10:00 pm ET by AbbieHoffman
Nice shack.
I production framed for about 10 years and we never had the luxury of lifts and such (nor did the developers pay enough to spend too much time or money) We used pretty basic fall restraints, used to have a sliding prussic (sp?) knot the climbers wood have recognized. Now that I'm doing custom remodels I still use the updated but basic (no retracters) The thing I didn't like about retractors was the constant tension.
Every one on the crew cursed the rope at one time or another, stepping on the rope is the fastest way to land on your 8ss. I always threw the length over the eves and kept the restraint slid down to give just a little bit of slack. Make sure you have a knot down line short of the roof edge so if the lock fail the knot stops you short of dangle. Of course if you are having constantly moving across the roof.the rope is harder to manage, add another anchor. Some times I would have a rope hanging from several anchors so I could change work areas frequently.
On steep roofs we would nail a toe board, 2 2x6's cali corner style, flat on the the first row of sheeting, holds sheets of ply and nervous toes.
Tool management was almost as important. I prefered hand tacking a row first, then grabbing the gun hanging in the rafters out of the way to nail off. If it's steeper than you are comfortable standing on you can hold on with one hand.
Cutting on a roof pitch over 6/12 is treacherous as the sawdust on he sheeting hold a sole about as well as ice.
Side note, end of the day on my buddies crew, dusk in winter, dew point, 4/12 roof 30' in the air, everyone is untying as they climb down through a hole in the roof, one guy unties then decides to throw a piece of ply over the edge, I don't know which hit first, him or the ply. He slid 8' on a 4/12 which I wouldn't have believed possible, the last 4' or so on his belly.