Can’t lift wall into position, too heavy
I had a first today, had to build a wall that has to house a long bank of windows and as such has a number of large heavy headers in it. Wall is 28ft long x 8ft. Five of us tried to lift it. TOO HEAVY. Any ideas on how to lift it up vertical?
Replies
break it into sections.
Wall jacks??
More guys? Wall jacks?
crane or Proctor wall jacks.. but figure your load... might be too heavy for the ProctorsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That dinky little wall aint' too heavy for a proctologist...or whatever you suggested. He's having problems because of the guys belief system. They don't believe they can lift it. It's only 28' long and 8' high. Even with a continous header, it ain't that bad. Each guy is being asked to lift 5.6 feet. I can do that with a herniated disc LOL. If they lift one edge at a time and get it sawhorse high...it'll fly up from there if they all give it 75%.
<If they lift one edge at a time and get it sawhorse high>That's funny, it may all be in your mind! Whenever we had a wall that looked really heavy on the floor, somebody would always say "Hey, if we get one end of that forker on a sawhorse, we can stand it up!"Great thing was, back then, there was usually a crew working down the street that you'd helped before... big walls were like a party...http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
I can do that with a herniated disc LOL.
So how'd you get that disc? Lifting walls?
Joe H
Jim, I was thinking the same. I remember a wall 32' long with 4 trippled up lvl headers, we lifted with 3 of us. We got done, took about 20min. for my muscles to quit twichting!
Your method you described is the best method, probably the absolute best is a crane, but that's a little expensive>G<
I did one back in the late 80's. Lift to horses, reposition and lift till upright.
10'tall, 2 x 6, 6 x 6 headers over 6-4'x 6 windows already placed, fully sheeted, maybe 38' long. 7 guys and it damn near killed us.
Half way through the lift the biggest guy actually passed out and collapsed from straining so hard. I was seeing spots in front of my eyes and so weak that I wobbled when walking for a good ten minutes afterward. Use jacks. Life is Good
Edited 9/23/2009 7:48 pm by dovetail97128
One end at a time.
Or, if you want to be safer, rent some wall jacks.
In my earlier days, we often raised walls that were "too heavy". Our method was this:
I would gather all the guys on one end and we would lift it to about 2' high. We stuff a block under it and walk to the other side. We'd then lift that end to about 3' high. We'd go back and forth doing this until it was about shoulder high. At that point, the weight is significantly less and five of you should be able to lift it.
I would stuff the blocks about 7' in from each end, assuming that the weight of the wall is evenly distributed. This will keep the wall reasonably in plane.
When you stuff the block, nail the block to the wall and nail a block to keep the bottom from sliding but don't nail the bottom of the block to the floor LOL.
I've probably raised fifty or 100 walls in this manner...some of them massive where we needed ten men.
Thanks, Jim, for the advice. I never did something this big before so it's like "holy ####, what to do." This wall is sitting on I-joists and it amazes me that once it stands up the I-joists will be able to hold all that weight. At least you have more experience with something that heavy than I do, so I appreciate the tip.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
"This wall is sitting on I-joists and it amazes me that once it stands up the I-joists will be able to hold all that weight."" Squash blocks are required in conventional platform construction where loads from above are transferred down through the floor into the wall or foundation below. This occurs where load-bearing walls fall on floors or posts supporting headers are located within the walls. Beneath these wall and point loads, the I-joists usually do not have enough interior reaction or exterior reaction capacity remaining to safely transfer these loads without risking a web-bearing failure. The solution is to place extra load-carrying members in line with these loads and insure that these squash blocks carry the load and the I-joists do not."http://www.webjoist.com/Product_Guide_Joist/WEB-i%20Page%2008.pdf
Not needed on exterior walls!
Willie,We use a homemade gin pole sometimes or a genie lift for heavy beams.KK
Edited 9/22/2009 5:48 pm by coonass
What is a homemade gin pole and how do I make one?If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
That is way scary compared to cribbing and raising one end. And...time consuming. You might be better cutting the wall in 14' sections. That brings up a small story. Forest and I used to frame houses alone. We always had a 40' wall in the back of the house to raise. We always raised it alone without jacks, even though we each owned wall jacks. The other crews never could figure out how we did it. We built it in three ( 16')sections but didn't nail the top plates fully until it was standing. When it was lying on the ground, it looked like it was all one wall. The moral: never frame a wall too long unless there is an efficiency to be gained. Since that wall didn't have overhangs, it didn't make any sense to make it so heavy that we needed wall jacks to raise it. Remember...just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.
We had a 60' wall that we framed in 3 sections. There was 5 of us so lifting those sections were easy.
View Image View Image View Imagehttp://www.pioneerbuildersonline.com
View Image
From Lot 30 Muirkirk
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler
Tim!!!!!!!! You are presheathing now and putting on the rake framing!!!!It's not that hard to figure out eh?
Can I ask you a few questions about your 60' without ruffling some feathers?
Of course you can. Just keep the following in mind,
That was 2006, and it was the first and last time we did that.
fire away ;-)http://www.pioneerbuildersonline.com
View Image
From Lot 30 Muirkirk
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler
Nope. If you aren't doing it that way anymore, there no sense in talking about it.
Jim,
I'd like to hear your comments though. I was thinking about you the other day and how productive your crews must have been.
Right now it is myself and my brother framing. He is usually an office guy, but we don't have enough work. Its working out ok, but we aren't as productive. http://www.pioneerbuildersonline.com
View Image
From Lot 30 Muirkirk
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler
I was going to ask how you guys were doing. I worked quite a few houses with only myself and one partner. We actually did quite well and were very productive. At that time, we humped everything by ourselves and raised the walls with wall jacks. Of course we'd hire a crane and operator to set the trusses. The crane guy we used would jump down and hook them trusses himself. He was good. He liked it because he would never be bored. We were always waiting for the next trusses to be swung. The observations that I had regarding your operation were this. When you raise a wall that long, you need to add temp braces IMMEDIATELY. Never, ever, ever, leave a 60' long wall standing without temp braces. In your case, you probably can make the case that it wasn't windy and nothing was going to fall over...but....you are setting yourself up for a future disaster if you don't have a firm set policy and stick to it. Furthermore, it will always make you more productive if you have that policy and stick to it. How? Look at the top two pictures you posted. The thing that quickly jumped out at me was the guy standing with his hands on his hips. Huh??????!!!!!!! I would have flipped a gourd if I was working on tying that corner and looked back and saw a guy standing like that. ISN'T THERE ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE? We had a very specific "system". The wall was raised. One guy dropped off while everyone else held and the guy quickly and immediately nailed a temp brace to the end. We didn't spend any time pulling out a level. We temped it by eye. That freed up that end of the guys while the other end got temp braced. The psychology of that simple procedure is this: we all know that we will have to immediately put temp braces on walls that can fall and kill or paralyze us. We do this as fast as possible. Then, everyone can either continue with the next steps on the wall, or go back to their previous endeavors. So, the guy standing with his hands on his hips should have been chasing a brace or nailing down the wall to the line or heading back to his job. In the second pic, one guy is standing and halfway holding a wall. I never tolerated that either. They all knew...if you are needed to hold that wall, hold it like your life depends on it. If your not needed to hold it, get going on something else. Now that you've told me that this was your first and last, it makes sense. You really don't know how dangerous a standing wall like that is in a slight breeze. The sheathed walls catch every breeze and will fall down quite easily if not properly braced. I had a 8' wall, 40 long blow off the upper deck, taking five braces with it. The lesson was "pay attention to what your braces are nailed into". Us older guys knew that but the youngsters had to learn the hard way. I was lucky...no one was under it. I was on the side about ten feet away working on some gable trusees.
Thanks Jim. Those were the days of no one over 28 and the youngest 19 or so.
I'm fixing my laptop right now, but I wanted to post pictures of how we were using the forklift to lift walls.
Maybe later.http://www.pioneerbuildersonline.com
View Image
From Lot 30 Muirkirk
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler
I loved when we switched to using the crane or forklift to raise walls. It's so much safer. And..easier on the back. I often wonder if my back would be healthy now if I had started my career working with cranes and lifts. I'm guessing it would be.
Will everyone please take a look at the bottom photo in the "in reply to" referenced thread. Did anyone besides me notice anything highly unusual? There's a SET OF PLANS spread out on the floor deck!!!
Of course it could just be lunch time and there's handy paper to spread the sandwiches out on. That's what I'm thinking anyway.
Runnerguy
Yes, I noticed that. It's a sign of youth....they still can bend without pain.
Never saw a 3 legged step ladder before!
I noticed that too. Immediately I could see the advantage...you can get them in closer to the corners. My second thought was about their stability. Since I stand on the top step (don't report me to osha) and I often straddle the ladder (I always bought wood ladders that had round rungs on the backside), I quickly decided that I probably would pass on that idea.
A gin pole is a near vertical pole with a pulley that is stayed back and counter weighted. It would be quicker just to stand the wall in two pieces if you are not going to use the pole a bunch.KK
proctor wall jacks.
Any wall can be raised with time and thought. I did a 28 foot wall ( OK two of them actually) fully sided and trimmed once alone before I bought my proctors. One inch at a time, jacks, cribbing...
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I'm being dumb here...what is a proctor wall jack?If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
http://www.google.com/search?q=proctor+wall+jacks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-####
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Do you remember someone posting pictures of their homemade wall jacks here on BT? It might have been in FHB but I think it was here. I think they had a crank come-along and a pulley on two 2"x4"s.
Is there anything you can't do or haven't done ?
Jealous?;)I did NOT build the pyramids.and I don't do plumbinglast but certainly not least amoung my list of non-accomplishments is that I do not understand how women think.
sometimes I wonder if they do.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jealous?
Heck no. I'm just having fun.
Thanks
Rent "Witness".
Watch the barnraising scene.
You should be good to go (Ok, I know there was lots of lemonade and a bunch of women folk there knitting but I still think you can pull it off).
Runnerguy
I did watch that movie, 4yrs ago, great movie. All those Amish folk are a lot smarter than me, and stronger.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Just "Be careful out there among them Englishers".
Runnerguy
Rent "Witness".Watch the barnraising scene.The guy in the blue shirt with the beard, who is shouldering all the weight is Piffin.
you sure you aren't fighting some nails that got toed into the floor?
Nope, no nails.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
I have a pair of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Qual-Craft-2601-Wall-Jack/dp/B0000224MY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Much cheaper than the proctor wall jacks and they'll easily do the job.
Oh yeah, I forgot to say, you can probably find the qualcraft wall jacks at your local rental place. That's where I initially came across them when looking to rent the proctors, which they didn't have.
I called rental shops all around here none have anything like a wall jack.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Hmm, that's interesting. I know the local rental shops don't carry the proctor wall jacks, (probably a maintenance/liability issue), but that's where I first ran across the qualcraft make and model. I think Amazon ships pretty quick; maybe even overnight if you need them that fast but I'm sure that'll boost the price. Those things have come in really handy over the years. You can use them for lifting beams into place, etc., not just tilting up walls. Plus, the storage on these guys is minimal, as opposed to proctors.
Something doesn't sound right. I've done plenty of 16' walls with just two guys. Lots of windows means big rough openings and less sheathing. Five guys should have that thing up in about 30 seconds.
I was giving it some thought myself. When I was learning to frame we had 3 guys. One huge, two not. Walls with windows , sheeting and o-hang went up. Not easy by any means, but up on blocks, up to the horse and then Up......but not over. These were easily 40 ft.
But now at 60, maybe it was my imagination.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
well it's a 2x6x8 wall with triple deep 12" LVLs. That wall is going to carry a ton of weight from above, a roof and a large master bedroom. I opted for overkill.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Ouch get the Advil.Send me your GPS co-ordinates and I will send my skyhook down. Send it back with some "Merican beers.
Sure...coordinates are Mechanicsburg PA, just fly around long enough and you'll see a bunch of guys diddling their time away trying to figur out how to get a wall up. I'm sure we're the only bunch of ninnies out there that you'll see stuck like that. Then lower the hook. See you at 7am.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Cut out the headers and put 'em in a pc at a time.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
triple LVLs, heavy sticks! Concentrate your guys in the vicinity of the headers and let the light sections of the wall follow??
Yes, thats a heavy wall. One side at a time will do it. You might have to continue the one side at a time routine till you can stick and 8' stud under it before it's light enough to hoist.
I've been wondering about that myself, but already got too critical in the door hanging thread, still even with continuous 28'long doubled 2x12 LVL for header, five guys should be able to get it up, I remember three of us doing that once, but it was only a 7'4" wall
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
rent wall jacks ... like everyone else said. They make it easy, albeit a bit slow, but you will have it up in no time and save everyone's back.
Build an A frame, set the a frame in front of the wall on the ground, tie the top of the wall to the A frame in a couple of spots with a length of appropriate rope/chain on the inside top of the A frame. Connect rope/chain to the top outside of the A frame connect rope/chain to truck and put in drive. You need enough slack between the wall and the A frame to get the frame at least partial up so that the frame legs are digging into the ground giving you the fulcrum point
Just make sure you have solid blocking to keep the wall from pulling forward.
The A frame will multiply your force many times over.
We lifted it today. 9 guys.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
So what did it take to get it up?
9 guys and 5 seconds and a few grunts and "oh geesh, push push push."If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
He said 9 men...and a belief system that says "it will go up". I used to explain to my guys exactly how much wall they were lifting. I would tell them that if they didn't believe it could be lifted, it wouldn't go up. I managed to raise every wall we ever faced....one way or the other LOL. I had a grasshopper call me once. He had taken a job on his own. He built a big gable and put the wall jacks on it and raised it. But...the wall jacks only got it up so high and it was stuck. They weren't strong enough to continue lifting. HE WENT HOME AND LEFT THE WALL HALF UP!He is/was a nitwit.