Last weeks Cartalk puzzler:
My friend had purchased a piece of slate to put into the floor in the hearth in front of his fireplace. The slate was 3/4 of an inch thick, by 10 inches wide, by 48 inches long, and weighed on the order of 175 pounds. He had cut a hole in the oak floor that was the same size as the piece of slate.
The depth of the hole was exactly 3/4 of an inch, the same as the slate. And, of course, there was the sub-floor underneath. When he put one end of the slate into the hole in the floor, he realized that he would have to drop the other end to get the slate into the hole. He realized that if he dropped the brittle slate, even half an inch, it would break.
Not only that, but it wouldn’t go in the hole, anyway. There was so little clearance that he couldn’t even use that thin fishing line to lower the end of the slate. So, he sat there for the longest time, drinking beers and pondering this dilemma.
After his 5th or 6th trip to the kitchen he returned with something from that solved the problem in elegant fashion.
What did he find there that allowed him to lower the slate into the hole without risk of breaking it?
Answer in next post.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Replies
The answer is:
" He returned with something from the kitchen that solved the problem in an elegant fashion: the ice cube tray from the freezer. He simply placed a few strategic ice cubes on the sub-floor.
The ice cubes were placed on the sub-floor but the slate was placed above it. As the ice cubes melted, the slate lowered itself into the hole."
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool
My first reaction to this was "Booooogus! You can't introduce all that water onto the subfloor under the slate."But I quickly thought, well, it isn't that much water, so maybe it would be OK.Any opinions?Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
How much ice does it take to support a 175 pound slab of slate?
Who cares if it's BS, it's a great story, leave it at that.Never serious, but always right.
Well he coulda used a spatula. Less mess.
I finally arrived at "ice" but gave some thought to balloons. 4 balloons, tie knots in them then stick a pin into the end by the knot, so they'd let down slowly instead of popping.
Or whack the tight flooring with a big hammer.
Greg
The spatula would work just as well.In real life, the slate is not going to break just from being dropped that last little bit, into the hole.Sit it on the ice cubes, and you have to sit there the entire time they are melting, to make sure the slate doesn't move over one edge while they melt.Encourage the melting, and you are sure to get uneven melting. Let it go as normal, and you'll probably get uneven melting anyway.In any case, you will still have all that water under the slate, and the slate WILL tend to move away from center of the hole. You'll end up having to push it off of one edge or the other, anyway, and it will STILL have to drop that last little bit anyway.Just use the freaking spatula, already...Or make two of the tiniest little notches in the wood on the sides, so that you can use a piece of fishing line to lower it with. You'd probably never even see the notches. And if they were noticeable at all, sand a piece of wood, and drop the sanding dust into the holes, and they will disappear entirely....Of course, if the slate and the hole are such an exactly perfect fit as they say, (Pretty much totally impossible in a real-world fireplace scenario...) You'd have to make four of the tiniest of notches anyway, and use two strings. Because once one half of the slate is laid in place, the other half will not just drop into place. It will hang up on the lip, no matter what you do. The slate would have to be lowered exactly level, 4-square....It's a straw-man problem. It is almost impossible to get that perfect a fit, without being in a perfectly controlled labratory situation. You would only have the problem if you were very careful to create the problem in the first place.Otherwise you WILL already have places to use the string anyway. Almost guaranteed.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
I'da used a scrap of aluminum trim stock ...
if there's not room for that ... the hole is too small!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Exactly.What is going to happen when the wood expands ?And exactly how are you going to keep the wood from expanding with all that water from those ice cubes ?
Matter of fact, if the fit is THAT tight, isn't the water from the cubes already going to affect the wood enough that the slate won't fit in the hole by the time it reaches it ???
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
Edited 11/24/2004 6:13 pm ET by Luka
And then there are the mold problems from that traped moisture. Lawsuits, demo work, then they sell the place and the new owners rip out the slate and put in brick.
YEAH !!!:)
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
And I want to know, did they put extra blocking and bracing under the floor there, to carry the extra weight ?Is the subfloor advantech, or is it just the particleboard ? It'll swell up with the water, too.;)
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
I think Blue put the blocking in.........oh wait! He's the one that leaves it out, no wait that's the other guy, oh heck!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
I aint putting no useless blockingin
and I woulda whacked out an extra 1/2" all the way around that slab.
I did figure out the ice answer in about ten seconds though. The kitchen clue made it an easy guess.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I was thinking he went to the kitchen, got a 6-pak, drank it, and then he didn't give a rats arse and dropped it in anyway.
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
here's another "tight fit" tip ...
duck tape or blue painters tape ...
or ... a shop vac.
either make "handles" out of two loops of tape ...
or .... turn on the shop vac and see if the suction holds.
I "fixed" a brushed stainless steel vent hood cover with the shop vac trick.
it sat in the right position ... till the granite guys bumped it ...
then ... it "bent" in from being square off the wall ...
no way to get something in behind to "pop" it back ...
looked at the shop vac and the little light bulb went off ....
turned the vac on ... held the hose to it ...
and slowly pulled the deformed metal back to it's natural place.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
looked at the shop vac and the little light bulb went off ....
was it a dim bulb??
:D
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
was it a dim bulb??
well ...
it was over my head ...
so it couldn't have been too bright btw ....
Hey .... too bright ...
that was my wife's vanity plate when I met her!
actually ... "2 Bright" ...
her maiden name is Bright.
she never used to think it funny when I'd tell her the state pen guy forgot the "not" at the begining ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
jeff.. i thot it was "2 bright" because she had her high beams on !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
damn ...
now how'd I miss that line?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Given the tight fit just drop the slate.
The air trapped under the slate when it passes the top of the hole will compress and cushion the fall. Works out like this:
Slate and hole is 10" x 48" = 480 in square.
The weight of the slate = 175 lbs.
175 lbs / 480 in. sq. = .364 lbs/psi.
In other words the space below the slate would only need to come up .364 psig. to completely support the slate.
In fact if the fit was too perfect, unlikely given any reference to the real world, the slate would float in the hole indefinitely on a cushion of air.
More realistically, but within the description of the situation, the slate would end of the slate would come down quickly but slow as the air was compressed. The opposite end would rise, might be best to hold down on it to prevent rebounding, and the slab would sink slowly as the air leaked out through the imperfections in the fit.
Of course the ice cube is good also. An ounce of water is unlikely to cause any great issues IMHO and would pretty quickly evaporate and dissipate especially as the area will soon be warmed.
Thanks for the answer. I listened to cartalk when they asked the question, but I missed the show with the answer.
I was thinking Seran wrap.
He threw some ice into the cavety, set the slate on it and finished the rest of the 12 pack while he watched it settle into its resting place.
Just grind on it overnight -- you'll figure it out.
I'd get the drain plunger and mash it down on top of the slate, move it into place, lower it down, and drink beer until the plunger poped loose, or until the beer ran out.
That's an old press riggers trick. The old printing press were installed in a big hole in the floor and the shops didn't have overhead cranes that could handle the weight. The riggers would call the ice company and have enough ice brought in to fill the hole. The crew would have a night on the town as the tons of iron and steel settled comfortably into its station.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
He has the super accurate scale which means that Doug Ferman is a drug dealer. He weighs the two pills for what it's worth. If it was an army camp, it would be Fort Worth. He grinds up all of the pills with his jackboots [since he is a [POL] Cheney supporter. He mixes them up thoroughly and then divides them up in increments of the original weight of the two pills.
As to the slate, what is the weight of a cubic inch of slate?
I tossed around the plumber's helper like Brian and Fink have after their names and the vacuum cleaner as well as the ice cubes. Dry ice wouldm't leave any melted water.
~Peter
Send your empty aluminum foil cartons to Martha.
SOLUTION: Combine all 20 pills and grind them into powder. Then weigh out two doses - the weight of two pills - and take. Voila!
(As I read the puzzle on their web site it was mentioned that there was an accurate scale.)
It said there were 20 of EACH and after he dropped them he gathered the other 18.
So the other twenty must not have spilled!
put the 18 back in the bottle w/ the 2 and continue to take 1 pill from each bottle.
And be more careful with your pills you MORON!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
My first idea (can't think long, gotta rush out for a myoview cardio test) is to grind up all the dropped pills and then take the powder and weigh it against the two that are left and use those to make the two pills worth. Don't know exactly how to balance the weights though.
If you grind up the 18 that are left, you might not get the right dose. You really have to grind up all 20, but then you need to have the exact weight to measure.
Ok, how about using the two pills and finding something, like sand or pebbles that weighs the same (have to make a balance out of a stick or something) then grind all the pills and measure out their weigh on the balance? Or take two pills and put in pill bottle with water to disolve. Do that ten times, pouring into a separate container. Pour out one bottle's worth and drink.
Ice Cube.
Ice cubes. Place underneah and wait to melt.
without peaking at your next post...
ice cubes
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I imagine that they'll say you wouldn't have a scale if you were in the woods, but we'll see--I hate not knowing the answers to brain teasers. One Christmas my brother told me the one about the prisoner guarded by two guards, one who always lies and one who always tells the truth. One guards the door to freedom, one the door to death. The prisoner can ask one guard one question. What must he ask to get to freedom? Then my bro tells me he doesn't know the answer! Three of us puzzled over this for a couple days; I think I came up with the answer, but neither of my sibs believed it when I told them.
Ask the guard something like this: " If I asked the other guard where this door here leads, what would he tell me?" Whatever the guard answers, the truth is the opposite, and you are on your way to freedom. Doesn't matter which guard you ask, the answer will be the sameUnfortunately, liars in real life are not so reliable as the liars in such logic problems. They will tell the truth sometimes just to trip you up.How about licking the pills, and then sorting them by their taste?Bill
I think if you asked them that, they would both say no. But you still don't know who's who.
I think your answer about the guards would work. Mine was to ask one guard if the liar guarded the death door and go through if he said yes, go through the other door if he said no. With the pills, I would assume the puzzle states that there was no difference in taste.
I am starting to carry ice cubes in my pouch as of tomorrow.
"I am starting to carry ice cubes in my pouch as of tomorrow."David,Please let us know how that works for you!Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Well first thing Rich I plan to work only outside this winter if I work inside I'm keeping my pouch in the fridge. Don't get me wrong I like your ingenuity with the slate I hope I was adding a bit of humor.
"I hope I was adding a bit of humor."You did! I was hoping to add to it!!Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
oh!
Icecubes?