In this not so old house, i can hear every single time the kids flush the toilet upstairs. We’re about to build an addition (long story) Anyway, I want to use cast for the upstairs waste pipe, spouse wants to use plastic. Says cast will rust. I say plastic is noisy. Especially when bath room is right over kitchen. New duct chase will be beside full height kitchen pantry, in a corner, so a bit of a problem if he’s right. How many years can we get from cast?? Enough so that I won’t care????? (35-40)
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Replies
martagon99
Use PVC and insulate around it. It won't rust.
Be plastic
NAmaste
andy
"As long as you have certain desires about how it ought to be you can't see how it is."
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I isulated around PVC with pink fiberglass. It did not help much.
Plastic is the way to go, unless, say you live in Florida and need the extra weight of CI to help hold the house down in a hurricane.
Seriously though, CI would tend to rust and leak. Plastic pipe with fiberglass batt insulation in the chase walls should significantly cut down the noise and cost a lot less than CI. If the chase/pipe is adjacent to an exterior wall or attic, make sure the pipe is inside the conditioned air envelope of the house.
Good luck
Ah, i knew you men would stick together. :^) Thanks, the chase is inside the r-42 envelope, so could probably soundproof it w/o it freezing
Edited 3/2/2003 12:25:23 PM ET by martagon99
Here's a dissenting vote from a guy. I wouldn't hesitate to use cast iron in that application. We had a discussion here a few months back about retrofitting soundproofing to an existing PVC drain. I saw a lot of imaginative suggestions, but I didn't see any of the suggesters claiming that his method would make the thing as quiet as cast iron.
I also never heard of a properly installed cast iron drain rusting out or leaking within 40 years, but just in case, I would design the chase to minimize the pain of replacing the drain if it does happen.
If you can afford the cast, go ahead and do it. Hubby is only mentioning rust without believing it. Who cares if a little rust stain ends up in the septic system? It won't rust through in your lifetime. The thing he is really concened about is the cost. Fibreglass or sprayed foam from cans can help dampen noise from plastic, too but not as well.
In all the renovation I have done on hundred year old houses, the only flaw I have found in cast was one verticle drop that was split lengthwise and probably had been done in a previopus remodel with a sledge or crowbar, carlessly used, by the signs I saw..
Excellence is its own reward!
I have had plumbing contractors do a hybrid arrangement of cast iron and pvc. We've piped pvc in the floor frames along to the point of joining to the downcomer, then used cast iron for the downcomer through the walls. Works pretty well, and flushing and bathing is quiet for folks down below.
Hey, keep those dissenting opinions coming. Might be able to sway him. As for when it rusts out.. .... well, if I get 40 yrs, then my daughter will have to worry about the rust, not me.
A young lady like yourself might have to worry about the longtivity of cast iron. For us middle age folk, I figure that in 75 or 100 years it'll be ready for a remodel anyway.
fiberglass insulation won't give you the sound control you want. Maybe using a 2 part foam insulation might do the trick, along with a lot of mass
I'll cast my vote with you.
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Edited 3/2/2003 12:48:12 PM ET by Barry E
>>bath room is right over kitchen. New duct chase will be beside full height kitchen pantry, in a corner<<
You WILL hear every flush with the plastic. Insulation around plastic does little to stem noise. Properly instaled CI is remarkably quiet and will last longer than you will. In my ancient home, plumbing was added in the 20's. The only place the CI failed was where it was run directly through a masonry wall and mortered in (a code violation today) the mortar ate through from the outside in. When we replaced it, the rest of the line was as solid as it was when new.
The advantage to the plastic is you get to say "I told you so" for the rest of your life....
I've lived with insulated exterior of PVC toilets and tubs with no significant noise....other than when my wife and me bathed together.....<G>
Save water
bathe together
NAmaste
andy
"As long as you have certain desires about how it ought to be you can't see how it is."
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Your kids drive you crazy flushing a toilet? I'm ecstatic if I can get mine to quit screaming and crying.
I guess I could learn a thing or twelve from you on how to raise a sedate child.
I'd say most cast will rust thru...in about 100 or so yrs?
Then it'll leak....
that's really....really.......a major concern!
Jeff
ask the hubby why people in the know go with cast...if they can afford it?
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
even if you use cast iron, you'll have to insulate around it, so why not just do the job in pvc. There's cellular core pvc which is supposedly a little quieter than solid wall.
Put in the PVC and spend the rest of your time in that house remembering (everytime the upstairs toilet is flushed) that by not going with cast you saved a few dollars and spared yourself the worry of what will happen after 100 years (not that anyone can say with certainty that the PVC won't be falling apart in 100 years, well maybe with near certainty...)>
Put in the cast and spend the rest of your time in the house not giving it a second thought.
Your call.
Another day, another tool.
So, here's a really dumb question -- actually, I just hadn't thought about it. How much more expensive IS cast than PVC. Is it really significant. Must be, if it's being mentioned as a consideration. Guess I could call the plumbing store tomorrow, but it's easier to ask you guys :^)
In the many years of dealing with cast iron (no-hub) i have never seen rust as a major issue. However the rubber no-hub bands are far more likely to dry-rot crack and leak far sooner than the cast rusting thru. I have seen this time and time again probably from a lack of proper support which causes the pipes to move just a little but enough to crack old brittle bands over time.
In 1949 when I was still a pup, we moved into a renovated 1920's house. The plumbing had been completely redone with cast iron. In 2002 my father called me over to correct a smell problem in the basement where the CI had crown corrodded through and collapsed.
As I removed the offending section and sounded out the remaining sections I ended by replacing the main riser to floor level, 13 ft of 4"CI pipe, 6 fittings and an assortment of transitions from PVC to CI or Galvanized.
About a 50 year longevity for that system.
.....................Iron Helix
I do old, and I mean old, home remodels. I have worked on homes with original plumbing in them that must be over 100 years old. I have never, ever, seen a cast iron drain pipe rust. They are quieter and more dependable. I have seen cast iron sewer (soil) pipe rust, but they are more resistant to roots than ABS.
One man's thought.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
"I have worked on homes with original plumbing in them that must be over 100 years old."
I don't think most homes HAD running water 100 years ago......It's a good thing we have gravity, or else when birds died they'd just stay right up there. Hunters would be all confused.
The toilet (invented by Thomas Crapper) was invented in the late 1870's. Most new construction homes in cities had indoor plumbing since the 1890's. Granted it may have been limited to one bath and a kitchen, but indoor plumbing nonetheless.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
I had to repair a leak in my in-laws cottage up in maine, the cast iron pipe joint from the upstairs BR had begun to weep. Funny thing is, we never would have discovered the leak (it dripped to the crawlspace below) if a dead and decaying chipmunk in the chase hadn't made us remove part of the wall. The moral of the story is, go with CI, just ensure the joints are done right. Also, when I closed up the wall, I installed the paneling with screws behind trim so if I ever needed to get at it again. . .
I am well over 60 and have been in construction of multifamily and institutional markets for 45 or more years and my experience in more than twenty hospitals, I have replaced cast iron plumbing pipes, both vertical and horizontal that had cracked on top, and pitted through the sides with pinholes. Replacement with PVC was more expensive due to shielding the PVC from fire with layers of drywall, BUT PVC will last for at least 50 years and cast iron replaced was a young as 10 years and the oldest was 20 years. Labor to install bell and spigott cast iron pipe is MUCH more than PVC and the no-hub variety leaks at the joints in about 10 years. Insulation and double drywall will kill sound. By the way, you can still hear sound through cast iron pipe also. Surround the PVC pipe with insulation and double the drywall around it. You will save money the 1st time and now have to replace it during your lifetime.