Hi All (especially the plumbers reading this!):
I have an old home with cast iron soil pipes. I need to replace a part of the sysetm in my 3rd floor bathroom (tile on wet bed construction). The problem is that the original fitting appears to have been either incorrectly installed or moved overtime (the house is 76 years old – we all develop a few wrinkles over time ;-> ). It formed a trap that caused the connection (A) pipe to rot and crack. I need to replace/cut several pieces to correct the problem (i.e., probably shorten the vent stack to make room for correcting the trap). Interestingly enough, none of the joints appear cracked or leaking, only the bottom of the bad piece of pipe – makes me (the card-carrying amateur) think it was built that way – if you’re a pro feel free to disagree.
Btw – this is old style lead/sorghum(?) type connections. I know where I can rent some tools, but I haven’t found any good books.
Any thoughts from the experts? Any suggestions/advice entertained here, including sending the ITGuy to the phonebook to get a pro to do this (although, that will be a big ego killer!)
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Btw, Gabe if you’re out there, I’m Tom@Home in disguise – new logon (reflects my current occupation – I just restarted my engineering curriculum at Drexel University in Philly at night – who knows what’s next!)
Tom
ps -I attached a simple text file drawing depicting the problem – sorry, I don’t have the Visio mechanicals stencils installed; I can borrow a digital camera if anyone needs to see a picture.
Replies
oakum(sp?)...not sorghum.....they make molasses out of sorghum.
ShelleyinNM
Oops! 'Guess I'd make a pretty sticky mess out of the that repair ;->!
I would also think replacing as much of the iron as possible with PVC is a good idea. Cut the iron with a special carbide abrasive blade in your reciprocating saw. This is a relatively gentle way of doing it without breaking old, brittle iron pipe you want to save.
At 76 years old, anything you leave now may just start leaking in a few years, and you'll have to rip everything open again.
Good luck!
Al Mollitor
Sharon, MA
Al, I'd **LOVE** to replace with pvc, but local code doesn't allow pvc-to-cast iron connections for repairs (yet). They gave me the "we're thinking about adopting the international code but haven't yet" story. I guess, if I do go with pvc i'll just have to keep the house long enough for them to change the code ;-> ! Not that I'm thinking of selling, anyway.
Welcome,
Always glad to have another Philly guy around. (I'm in the NE, near Cottman & the Boulevard.) Also went to DU night school, need to go back and finish. Anyway.
If the ASCII picture you drew is accurrate, it strikes me as being wrong. From top to bottom, the vent stack you show leading to the right, but the soil stack is to the left. DWV (Drain, Waste, Vent) connections should flow to the final destination. That is, as the vent comes down, I think it should lead to the left, towards the soil stack. The 3rd floor connection should also have a down slope in it, so in your picture it should go from top right to bottom left. If I understand you, you're saying the 3rd floor pipe leads down from top right towards bottom left, until it hits the area of the vent connection. It then leads up towards upper left, where it connects to the soil stack. If I had to guess, and I understand you correctly, it seems the pipe settled in the area where the vent connects, causing the trap. The trap is there simply because $#!+ doesn't flow up hill without help.
I'm attaching two drawings, one to show what I think you have, and one to show what you should have. Note that the slopes shown are exaggerated, and my apologies for the simplistic sketch. My 3D program is on another computer.
If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.
Thanks! I'll take a look when I get home (I'm at work right now). I'll check my connection, too - I may have drawn the orientation of the vent stack backwards :-<. Now, that it's springtime I can open that part of the ceiling up again without freezing in t he second floor bath room.
btw - good to hear from another Philly guy and DU student. Did you ever experience the "Drexel Shaft"? I have a story...
Tried to send you some illustrations from a book here, but they came back to me as undeliverable. What gives with that e-mail link?
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
From your reply above about your locality not adopting int'l code, I'll guess you're in Philly proper? Last I heard, they're talking about adopting it in August. Don't use third floor bathroom until then. :)
Never heard of the Drexel Shaft, except a vague reference to one of the dorms. I'm commuter, so I wouldn't know about that.
EDIT: I just looked it up at the state web site. PA will institute IBC in May, and have its requirements finalized by August. Philly has until Dec. 2003 to upgrade "less stringent" section of its code to meet IBC. But special requirements in place prior to July, 1999 will be grandfathered in Philly and elsewhere that have adopted them. So, even when new code comes in, you might not have a choice.
If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.
Edited 3/28/2003 10:20:57 PM ET by Mr. Pita
Actually, I live in Ardmore (Lower Merion Township - just west of Philly). But our plumbing codes are pretty similar.
I never knew people from my area were on breaktime. I live in Bala-Cynwyd (PA).
It's starting to sound like Philly should start a local Fine Homebuilding SIG (Special Interest Group) !
Are you in the trades, Matthew, or a rank-and-file amateur (pro-wannabe) like myself?
-Tom
Rent a cast iron pipe snapper. Snap the pipe on the low side of the 90 degree bend, above the vent tee and the toilet side of the tee. Get new no hub cast iron 90 and tee then just use no hub connectors and a piece of no hub cast to install to old cast iron. Contrary to some of the others advice I would keep the original cast. Only time it fails is if sewage sits in it or it is put in a weight baring mode and it breaks. DanT
These pictures/text are worth more than a thousand words! What title was this from? I'd be glad to honor the author/publisher by purchasing my onw copy (if it' still in print).
Confusion, a.d. 2003
The illustrations are from (gulp)........one of those little paperback Ortho books you might run across in a display of DIY books at a hardware store. I bought the thing twenty years ago......copyright 1982......entitled "Basic Plumbing Techniques".
I was surprised when I first looked in the thing cause there's actually alot of useful bassic instructive stuff in there. No codes or anything highly technical, but it's sure a good way for anyone to become familiar with the basics.
$5.95 at the time. Still in print? I dunno.
Glad it helped you visualize things. Knowledge is power.......even if it comes from an Ortho book.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Have to agree with DanT. Cast iron is good stuff inspite of what some consider the harder labor involved. Very little cast iron is installed with lead/oakum joint now days. Most all installation are with no hub connectors, sometimes referred to as Michelin Bands. They are rubber sleeves with a solid metal band the full lenght of the sleeve around them and band clamps at each end. There is also a internal rib that acts as a gasket between the two pieces of pipe.
The important thing about cast is supporting it, so that it does not get out of allignment. From your decription, the sag in the waste line at the vent stack was most likely caused by improper support of the waste line and the vent stack. Be sure to correct the cause of the sag durring your repair.
A big plus for cast iron is that it is quite. PVC is noisie, no matter how much you try to insulate around it.
Dave
The noise factor is something that I am considering. One thing I dig about these old homes is how quiet they are - plaster walls, cast iron soil/ copper drain pipes, etc. To me it's worth a little renovation headache to be able to enjoy some of the benefits they confer.