We are currently having a new building sprayed with a CC soya based insulation. We contracted to have 2″ on the walls, 4″ on the ceiling.
So far, the application seems very uneven & spotty. The applicator say, no worries, if it is 1″ in spots & 3″ in spots, it all averages out. Sounds like BS to me – but what do I know.
How does one know if this is being applied correctly or not? And if not, how can it be remedied? Will it affect the R value & what potentional problems might occur if it is left as is? (cold Canadian climate)
I would also like to know if it is standard practice that the floor is not tarped or covered, this stuff creates quite a mess & I am having to scrub the plywood with hard bristle brushes to get it off.
Thanks.
Replies
A foam job should always be specified as having a certain minimum thickness everywhere. A good foamer will go back and fill in spots that came up short. Any areas that got more are his loss, your gain.
Averaging doesn't work. Heat loss per unit time per degree temperature difference (call that Q) is Area/R. For two units of area, each one square foot, and each having 2" of foam at R6/inch, you have total heat loss Q=2/12 = 0.16666 BTU/hr/degree F. Now if one of those areas has only an inch, while the other gets three inches of foam, the total Q is 1/6 + 1/18 = 0.22222, or 33.3% more heat loss.
Yes, foam is messy stuff. That's why they use the Tyvek moon suits when they spray.
Thank you, we felt we were being given a load of huey by these guys. They do not wear any protective gear. - they claim with this soya based enviro friendly product, it is safe, no fumes - but I gotta say that after a few hours of them spraying, I couldn't be in there for 5 minutes without a headache.
They do not wear any protective gear
Around here, that's called a coyote outfit. other places might use the term "cowboy."
It's not a good sign if the employees either do not know, or just tolerate, having to pick cured foam of themselves and their clothing.
It's a bad sign too, in that they are unlikely to care about your floors, windows, or other surfaces, either.
"It averages out" sounds like a slightly-polite version of "can't see it from my house."
If you bought astyrofoam cooler and it only "averaged" full thickness, would you be satisfied? You probably ought not be satisfied with this, either. Bad part is that they are as likely to perform just as half-donkey a repair as the initial installation (spotty patching on spotty work). Their bosses are likely to tell them to get in and get out quick, too. By the time you get to that third callback, they're not likely to answer the phone, let alone your concerns. But, the alternatives are not very rosy either.
I wish I had a better answer for you.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Well, I am not really expecting a good ending to the story here. Cowboy or coyote are both way too polite terms for this bunch. They provided an estimate & start date of Oct 20, dropped cardboard off for us to have installed in the ceilings. We are a remote water access only location in Canuck land, winter ya know is around the corner.The job got delay by 2 days, then they did not show, did not answer cells, or return messages for a week. Finally we reached the guy. They now thought they would be there Thursday, maybe Friday at the latest. We go down to the lake Thursday, by Friday pm with no news. Friday night we get a hold of them & it is was set that they will for sure be at the boat landing Sat. 8:00 am.(they need us to ferry the equipment) No show, no phone call. Finally reached them at 2:30 – oh the new portable machine was giving us trouble, we’re trying to fix it, hope to get there Monday. Uh huh… no show, no call. Leaving messages for the next week all over town – no return calls. The weather is turning, we are calling every other insulator in town to see if someone can do this on a tight deadline here – no one can. Finally get the #2 guy on the phone, trouble still with the machine & the generator. Decide our electrician will look at the machine, to see if it can be hard wired into our electrical service. The electrician shows up at the time & location set by them to check it out – surprise - they are not there. He calls them, oh, they will be there in a couple of hours. Electrician goes off, comes back, takes a look & says he can hook it up by putting in a 150 amp breaker. Appointment set for Monday Nov. 10 noon at the landing, electrician making special trip down to the lake to do the hardwire for them. 2:30 still no show, but at least they answered the phone. Yah, the chemical is being delivered to the warehouse at 3:00 – then we’ll drive out (2 hrs). Warn them, it is getting dark by 5:30ish and we have no lights on the boat, be there. 7:30 they finally arrive – stinking to high heaven of booze. Managed to get this heavy equip loaded on the boat & up the stairs & hill. Thank goodness the electrician stayed all day to get this hooked up.(6’4. Big guy – they would never have gotten the machine up the hill without his help.)Machine gets hard wired in & it works, hallelujah. Tuesday am the guys actually show up at 8:30 & start. Hubby has now cancelled his appointments all week as we feel we cannot leave these guys alone. Did I mention the steering cables on the boat are freezing up, the gear shift has broken, husband spend 4 hours making repairs, stripping out the cable & defrosting them, so it semi functions to keep the boat in the water for this job. Wed & Thurs, the guys show up around 9:30 hung over from closing out the local bar, and are leaving by 5:00pm, short days. The spraying is going slow as they think the compressor is not functioning well. By Friday, they are only half done so they decide to go get another compressor, this eats up most of the day. By 3:30 they want to leave for the weekend – got commitments & needs (nudge nudge wink wink). Multiple calls go out to the owner, the scheduler, both crew guys leaving urgent messages all over. A) Hubby cannot cancel any more appointments – we have our own business to run B) the boat is becoming more unreliable and safety is a factor C) the ice is forming & the landing cannot be counted on anymore. We gave them a few names of locals who could be hired to take them across the big lake for maybe the next couple of days, but they were on their own for getting there. By Wed (nov 19th) they haven’t called any of locals to make alternate transport arrangements. On Thurs we call them again, oh, they are coming tomorrow to get their equip off site. They'll be back in the winter on the ice road to finish, and "oh, can we get a cheque for the work that is done? "
At this point, we are insulated enough to keep the building & our sump pit from freezing up. It will certainly hold us up as far as finishing out the walls & ceilings over the winter as planned, but if we can find someone else to come in to finish we will....but I am trying to actually figure out how bad a job they have done up to this point, hence my post. We will not be paying a red cent until we do.
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Edited 11/21/2008 10:55 pm ET by confused2