I am about to start installing cedar shingles on the outside walls of a house in Michigan. Having not done this before — and would like to use a pneumaatic nailer. What types of nails/staples? Length? should be used?
BudRon
I am about to start installing cedar shingles on the outside walls of a house in Michigan. Having not done this before — and would like to use a pneumaatic nailer. What types of nails/staples? Length? should be used?
BudRon
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Replies
I would use 1 3/4 spiral shank stainless Roofing nails and a coil pnuematic nailer. They are 3x more expensive but they never rust and nothing makes cedar look dingier faster than galvanized nails that have lost their galv.
I would use Hardie plank and do it only once
Roofing nails should NOT bew used with cedar shingles. The thicker shank is made to displace more wood on roofs to hold better against wind for asphalt shingles. Hold power is a function of the wood displaced in the sheathing.
But that same thickness penetrating a cedar will lead to premature splitting and the job will not last long.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Makita and Hitachi make siding nailers that shoot 1 3/4" hdg ring nails that work nice for blind nailing. SS is the thing for face nails.
we use bostich N64 sidewall coil nailers..if it's white cedar we use a 3 1/2 d galv. ring nail... if it's red cedar we use a 5d or 6d galv. box nail.. that is for the concealed nails only..
for all exposed nails we either hand nail with SS 5d siding nail... or we use a Bostich 5d SS ring shank nail...
if you want true hot dipped galv. nails for your gun, you can get them from Maiize Nails.. for our concealed nails we use normal galv. nails
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey mike are you matching the shingles on the next wall or replacing all of the siding?This is not at all poking at you I was just curious why the exposure was so tight especially on siding. I can see for a shallow roof I would have a four inch exposure but for siding I would go with 7 or 8 inch. Just seems like a waiste of materials.
As for the main question of finish nailer or stapler? NEITHER use 4d galv nails and "HANG" them. you are not supposed to penetrate the shingle with the head of the nail just hang the shingle don' t drive it home.
Also, are you using perfection shingles like Mike or hand splits? Hand splits can be a pain but don't get discouraged. They seem to be cut the wrong way with the top being wider. Just watch the gusset, don't line them up!!
Make sure your exposure is what it should be. If you're working on a steep roof then go with a larger exposure but the more shallow the roff, the less the exposure is. I've done exposures where asphalt should have benn put down instead but ya know how it goes it's not your decision.
Good luck.
" Looks good from my house!!"
shoe.. you're kinda covering the waterfront here.. what are you talking about to whom?..i'm assuming all the comments are to me , right ?
i know the first one is to me... that was a house that was shingled wrong the last time.. they had their coursing all screwed up.. in addition the house had since been jacked and leveled ( but not plumbed... its at least 3" out of plumb)..
so we put our courses on the way we want the rest of the house to eventually be reshingled to..
next.. as to coursing.. ( exposure ) sidewall shingle exposure for single coursing is limited to less than 1/3 of the nominal length of the shingle..so
for a 16" WC , the max exposure allowed is 5 1/3 "... but you shouldn't exceed 5"..
for an 18" RC ( which is what these were ) the max exposure is 6".. but we never exceed 5 3/4"...
if we were hand nailing we'd use a 3 1/2d HDG shingle nail for the WC..
for the 18' RC, we'd use a 4d HDG Box nail..
for the sawn back hand splits (taper sawn) we'd use a 5d or 6d HDG box nail..
if we're using our siding guns ( which is like 90% of the time), we use the nail that comes closest to what i just described.. and we set the nose so it drives the head to flush without setting below the surface.. we don't HANG shingles... we HANG claps... but that might be a regional thang... who nose ?
on roofs , we use a piece of 1x6 PFJ as our coursing guide which gives us 5 1/2" exposure.. but we decline to roof with wood on low slopes.... so i'd probably never get to the point of reducing our exposure to 4"..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I wasn't at all saying anything about your workmanship or questioning your knowledge but was curious about your siding in that picture but you cleared it up with the input on the complete job with the building being out of plumb and square. As far as the exposure goes I was guessing it was a low exposure. In that picture it seemed more shallow than 5 3/4 " I think that's what you said it was.. Sorry about that. Like I said I wasn't questioning your knowledge. And as far as my opinion gies I would still hand nail the shingles and yes I forgot to mention , which you pointed out, using 5d or 6d nails for the hand splits.
sorry for the misunderstanding." Looks good from my house!!"
shoe... i knew you weren't and i didn't take it that way... i'm just a little more abrupt in my wording than you...
no offense taken and none intended on my end... that cat'll get skinned whichever one of us does it...
BTW.. the reason that damn house was out of plumb ?.. it was skip sheathed.. the whole damned 2 1/2 stories .. no sheathing.. no let in braces...just a 1x2 every 5" ..
there was no way we could thief the shingles out... so every place we shingled we stripped to the top... was i surprised when we pulled he first shingle s off and saw that... and i shouldn't have been.... i grew up a block away from that house..
we called it the "bird lady's house" she was poor and didn't keep it in good repair.. and the birds would just peck a hole in the shingles and they were inside...no sheathing to stop them.... you could see them flying in and out all the time..
well ... after we stripped some shingles , it all came back to me and i finally realized why the birds made her house such a nesting place years agoMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
shoe.. here's a pic of the skip sheathing..... the mock up casing is the 8' high by 10' wide door we had wound up installing in that wall... it was 2" out of plumb in the 8'... was that fun ..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 2/21/2004 6:46:12 PM ET by Mike Smith
I have a shed on my rental property that was built pretty much the same way though it did have some kind of sheathing on it . However, no insultion as you have, none that I can see anyway. One wall ready to be pushed down by hand, and a box frame which one side was pretty much sagging and useless. Worst of all the whole thing was elevated on tree stumps. Off the ground about 16". Pretty clever if that's all you've got but....Also the cedar shigles were placed in a un-uniformed kind of way no exposure was even with the next, no straight courses or anything. I replaced the one wall and part of the box frame, installed a new door but wasn't too worried about replacing all of the cedar( I wasn't that concerned about the shed) For some reason it didnt leak so I continued the "messyy" style w/o going over the 6 inch exposure." Looks good from my house!!"
I've been putting #1 WRC shingles on the exterior of our place for several weeks. I'm using a Senco 7/16" crown stapler and Senco 1-1/2" stainless steel staples. Do not use any galvanized fasteners or your neighbors will laugh at you from the street as they roll by and check out the black stains everywhere. I'm using 5d stainless ring shank siding nails at corners and where face nailing is necessary.
Go to cedarbureau.org and download the entire sidewall manual. Read it twice, then read it some more. Lots of good tips and info there.
BTW, what are the shingles costing you? Here they are $38 per bundle (4 bundles per square @ 5" exposure). It's really eating into my beer money.
dave... i've been slapping up red & white cedars for 30 years in a salt air atmosphere.. until we got into nail guns we used ONLY hot dipped galvanized... never had a single stain..
and a lot of the houses we work on were first shingled in 1890.. with HDG.. no stains.. you can look in the grass along the foundation and find the original nails where they fell when someone stripped for a reshingle... still look as good as the day they were installed..
also if you check with the cedar bureau.. you'll find they recommend HDG..
so .. anyways... for blind nailing.. a galv. nail is just fine... the only reason we go to SS is because it's easier to get SS nails than true HDG.... so any face nails we use nowadays are SS...
but hey, whadda i no ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You no a lot, far as I can tell.
My choices of local stuff are limited. No HDG gun nails for sale here, although I guess I could mail order them. Got no gun that would fire them either. But I stand corrected--if you want to nail you can use HDG. For me a stapler works best, and I never saw HDG staples. They got the electro-galv kind and that's what stains. They got the SS kind and they don't stain. I believe the original shingles on our house were put up with bright nails, but they're blackened so I'm not sure. Circa 1920.
I like the way the staples suck the shingles to the wall. Just about perfect. I taught my wife to lay shingles up on the 'level board' that I use, and staple them, so I can sit under the tree in my sunglasses and watch the place get shingled. She loses interest after about 10 minutes and then I have to get back to it. She got the hang on the block plane right away.
Your objection to staples in another thread duly noted. I am quite sure you will never have to strip anything off of this building.
dave .. i married my wife because she could shingle..and her dad cooked great fried chickenMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Next, you'll be telling us she married you because of your hot dipped galvanized
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It's obvious that Mike knows how to nail correctly... so she chose him.
David,
I purchased my shingles from Karl's Shingles in Cedarville, Michigan. Website: WhiteCedarShingles.com. Probably the best way to get current prices. I paid $130 a square, 5" reveal.
Thanks for your attachment tips!
Any expeience with thier beveled siding?
Did they ship your shingles or did you pick them up?
My project is only 80 miles from Cedarville so I picked them up, but they do ship. Have had no experieance with the beveled siding. Have purchased some excellent beveled siding from Haskee Post which is about 5 miles north of Cedarville, Michigan. Their phone # is 906-484-2603.
My project is only 80 miles from Cedarville so I picked them up, but they do ship. Have had no experience with the beveled siding. Have purchased some excellent beveled siding from Haskee Post which is about 5 miles north of Cedarville, Michigan. Their phone # is 906-484-2603.
That's less than anywhere here, and we got cedar trees outside our windows. I gotta think you have a different variety. I can get #2 grade WRC 16" shingles for about $120 a square, but I don't like the look nearly as much as #1 and they're harder to work when you need to notch, plane, shave, etc.