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I’m going to build a small house for a client in the near future and they’re insisting on cellulose insulation. It is located in sw arkansas and I’ve had real good results with fiberglass.The fiberglass was much cheaper and in my opinion, a lot better.Any thoughts on the subject?
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tool,
Try to discover why they feel as they do so you can deal with relevant facts to them. Odds are they're basing their thinking on either something they read or perhaps a mistaken impression, or even a poor installation job on a prior home.
For example, perhaps they like the fact that blown in insulation doesn't leave any voids...maybe they had an installer who did a poor job with fiberglass before and they think that's normal. You could point out to them what a mess cellulose is for any sort of remodling or any type of future work in the walls.
You might also find a way to add some profit by turning them onto some of the other unusual types of insulation...I've seen that foam blown in and that is really cool, I'd love to have it in my home. And there are other types too...but the first step is to discover what their thoughts are and why they are feeling as they do. Once that is known, odds are the best course of action will become obvious.
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*Why, in your opinion, is FG so much better? Just curious, and I ask because I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that FG is superior to cellulose. As for cost, in my area, it's a cheaper method to insulate for any given R value and performance. But then again, who cares? The client's paying the bill, so they'll pay for the cellulose, and that's what they want.
*about 80% of our insulation is cellulose.. the rest is foam boards...used to be about 50% cellulose / 50% fiberglass..but we've developed techniques for using cellulose where we used to use batts .. now we use cellulose instead of batts..here's a job with cellulose and foam boards combined.. QualiC 10/25/01 10:48am
*Jason, I've heard some negative things about cellulose.I know you can't beleive everything you hear, but the guy that told me is someone I would trust.he does all our insulation, and he said he used to work with cellulose.He said he'd seen on a remodel where the cellulose had settled aboout 4or5 inches in a wall.He also said that chemical will eventually wear off and your left with a big pile of dust.
*Tool, you just got to the truth. Your insulation guy doesn't know how to do it, so he's bad mouthing it. He knows how to do what he's been doing for 20 years & that's all he knows. Joe H
*Toolshed, I live in Batesville, Ark. and I just did my house in cellulose. I love it. But there are some things to consider. I have 2x6 9' walls (down) and my insulator insisted I put firestop in to keep the insulation from settling. I did, and it didn't. I just got my drywall up, so it's been sitting for about 6 months now (long story). Upstairs, I have knee walls that are 7" thick (due to the way the trusses were designed) and I didn't put in blocking because they were only 6' high. It settled at most about 1.5" and I just stuffed the voids with FG. I should have put in blocking.I had to remove some cellolose to add some studs to an outside wall and I was amazed at how dense it was. Has to be way better than FG. What about all the odd width bays? Many installers just shove the batt in there. Not a problem with cellulose. I hung FG in my garage to save money and doing the odd size bays was a real pain, and time consuming. No way a "pro" would take that much time. The ceiling is going to be way better done, because everything is covered. And there are no voids, anywhere, walls or ceiling.And it can be done for not a lot more than FG. If you want I can give you my guys name and number. He might cost a bit more, but it will absolutely be done right.
*Shed,Depends on the quality of application.FWIW, I look at 3 houses a day, 5 days a week (less in winter) and see a b lotof insulation.Never seen any cellulose turned to sawdust.I have seen plenty of old, 1950's FG that's gotten pretty packed down.Also, a lot of air movement is possible in FG, and air movement is what insulation is intended to stop.Also FWIW, firefighters don't like cellulose, makes it harder to fight the fire and be sure its out.One hand, other hand ....
*bob... in RI.. firefighters love cellulose...it saves houses...fibreglass walls will be embers and cellulose walls will look like there never was a fire...as to the line about settling...if a material has a settled density...and it is installed at a higher density..it b cannotsettle..that is the whole end all and be all of every blown-in installation.. no matter what the product..your insulator is making it up...
*Hey Joe, He said he did cellulose for 10 years, so I think he might know a little about it.Cellulose may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I still like fiberglass.To each his own I guess.
*hey, tool... why did you bother asking ?
*"in RI.. firefighters love cellulose"FWIW, what a couple of guys here in Ohio said was that the fire tends to smoulder under the cellulose in the attic, and it's very tough to find and extinquish.Now that you mention walls, seems I had heard that before.You don't suppose it's different out east?
*If they might be considering an addition or remodel in the future, cellulose isn't the remodelers favorite. Opening up, removing and handling used cell is no fun. It is better insulation if properly installed tho'
*piffen... i'd rather handle cellulose in a wall remodel than blown glass..or even worse ... blown rockwool....problem is.. fiberglass batts just suck as insulation in a wall
*Mike, not sure I follow your thinking on settling... it's go to have some air in it, or it won't insulate. You stack it high enough, in a wall, and the weight is going to force the air out at the bottom of the wall, it's going to compact, and it WILL settle. I ceiling is different because it's only 10-14" thick (high), whereas in a wall it's 8-9' thick (high).Toolshed posted this wanting someone to agree with him, or give him something to convince his client that FG is better. It's not -- cellulose is clearly better insulation, and not that much more expensive. I suspect he hasn't gotten a bid on both (except maybe from the guy who doesn't like cellulose), because then he couldn't use $$ as an excuse either.
*crusty.. it has plenty of air in it even when it is compacted to a higher density than it'sb settled density of 2.0 lb/cfat a density beyond 2.0... it b cannot settle anymore..the fire stops are not needed to prevent settling..on a thermograph.. the fire stops will show up as cold elements.. just as the studs do..if the fire stops were needed, by your insulator's theory, then all they would accomplish is to cut the settling in half in each part of the stud bay... since we are looking for zero settling (and we achieve it )... why would we settle for merely reducing it by half ?b but hey, whadda i no ?
*"at a density beyond 2.0... it cannot settle anymore".... I respect your opinions more than most Mike, but how do you KNOW this to be true?I think when you are blowing cells into an open bay, you are unlikely to achieve optimum density, even with a very good machine.... there are just too many variables. I suspect there is a "threshold" weight which will cause compaction and I doubt the settling is linear.The firestops are certainly a conductor, but small on a percentage basis compared to the studs. My firestop material was nearly an 1/8" wider than the original studs, and I ripped them so they wouldn't hold the drywall out. I ripped a 1/2" off and set them flush with the inside, so there is an air gap next to the sheathing -- not ideal, but better than nothing.
*crusty.. i no , becuz i've been taking them apart since 1980 when we first started using cellulose... we sold our solar energy business to a cellulose insulation mfr....he had an upill fight with the b worldconvincing people that it was safe... that it was a superior product...we did a lot of destructive testing for him..then when 60 minutes did an expose' on cellulose insulated homes being unsafe.. he started the campaign to convince theb worldthat in fact cellulose was b saferthan any ather insulation except concrete..we built him (3) 4x4 huts , uninsulated....fiberglass insulated... & cellulose insulated.. then we burned them..it was so successful .. we built him (3) 8x8 cabinsand invited the b world to watch them burn (ok... Rhode Island and SE Mass.)any how ...i've opened up hundreds of walls.. and properly installed.. no insulation can settle BEYOND it's settled density...and cellulose has good flow characteristics so it gets into all the little cracks.. unlike blowing wool, which tends to clog..a stud bay is a piece of cake for cellulose...corners and voids around windows are more problematical.. but not if you have a good insulator with a small nozzle...
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I'm going to build a small house for a client in the near future and they're insisting on cellulose insulation. It is located in sw arkansas and I've had real good results with fiberglass.The fiberglass was much cheaper and in my opinion, a lot better.Any thoughts on the subject?