Hi all … looking for some guidance (or better yet, someone to talk me out of this!):
Finishing up a gut/rehab on a rental house. I had intended to put in a vinyl floor in the small bathroom (5×6 area to cover), but I’m starting to think tile would make more sense from a durability point of view – if I do it myself, the cost difference is negligible. I value my labor at zero and figure I ought to learn how to do this one of these days … (I also fully expect to be humbled by the experience). DW picked out a cheap 8″ off white ceramic tile (btw, I love the look of that “tumbled travertine” stuff – is it appropriate for this application and is it any harder to work with? does it have a long term maintenance requirement?)
Bathroom is roughed in. The sub floor is sound – 2 layers of 3/4 plywood, lots of glue and #8 ring shank nails, sistered joists, no noticeable deflection when I jump up and down on it (trust me, if it doesn’t deflect when I do that, it’s solid). The subfloor is flush with the finished hardwood floor in the rest of the house, so I want to minimize the thickness. My questions:
The floor is not level – there is a 1″ change in height from one corner to another. My first inclination is to ignore this and move on, but unfortunately I’m too anal for that, and besides, the plumber already mounted the tub level, so there is a non-uniform gap between the tub and the floor that the tile has to cover. I’m considering two approaches to deal with it. One is a product called LevelQuick at HD – looks simple enough to use. The instructions recommend that you staple down a metal lath first, which I will do. I’ll put in a marble threshold which I hope will act as a damn at the door (that’s the lowest spot). The other option comes from the article by Tom Meehan (FHB#106) decribing a ‘modified mud job’, which also recommends a metal lathe (over tar paper) followed by “a wet 50/50 mixture of portland cement and sand). Any comments on either of these methods for prepping the subfloor? I’ve read somewhere else that using latex paint on the subfloor will accomplish more or less the same thing as the tarpaper. Comments? I’m about to prime the walls, so it would take no time to paint the floor too. Other recommendations?
What’s the deal with the various types of thinset? They range in price from $8 a bag to $25. Is the more expensive stuff better? (OK, I’m sure it’s better in some respect, but is it better in any way that will matter to me on this project?)
How do you cut out for the toilet hole? HD suggests splitting a tile and using the nibs to cut out 1/2 circles on each piece. The flange has not been installed yet – I think the plumber said to leave him a 5 3/4 hole … any advice on how to cut this and how much variation I’m allowed? I assume it can be bigger, but don’t know how much.
OK – hopefully I haven’t started one of those “what’s the best miter saw” threads, where there is no right answer (which reminds me – what do you think about the Hitachi 10″ laser for $179 at Amazon/Toolcrib? jeez … I think I just hijacked my own thread) ….
Thanks! Bill.
Replies
I was all set to dig into this with ya till ya mentionened the Hitatchi...
Geeezzzeeeeee!!!!!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
>Hi all ... looking for some guidance<
Lottsa luck.. Hitstchi.... hahrumph....
>(or better yet, someone to talk me out of this!):<
Okay so do don't do it...
With Hitatchis on the job yer doomed for failure...
Go have a beer and reflect all the miseries you were saved...
(wipe brow with forearm... take a sip... repeat as often as required...
>but I'm starting to think tile would make more sense<
look better too...
so let's do tile...
>I value my labor at zero<
'bout time to figure it's worth something...
then you'll see the light and get Bosch or Milwaukee...
>(I also fully expect to be humbled by the experience).<
No need..
>DW picked out a cheap 8" off white ceramic tile<
Glazed????
(btw, I love the look of that "tumbled travertine" stuff - is it appropriate for this application and is it any harder to work with? does it have a long term maintenance requirement?)
This what you prefer??
Bathroom is roughed in. The sub floor is sound - 2 layers of 3/4 plywood, lots of glue and #8 ring shank nails, sistered joists, no noticeable deflection when I jump up and down on it (trust me, if it doesn't deflect when I do that, it's solid). The subfloor is flush with the finished hardwood floor in the rest of the house, so I want to minimize the thickness.
go with the 8" then...
>The floor is not level - there is a 1" change in height from one corner to another.<
floor leveler from Elrey will work for this.. Wire mesh and then leveler... Lath screw it down and don't use staples... Follow the directions...
You should be able to get Elrey from a real tile store...
>My first inclination is to ignore this and move on,<
Don't....
>but unfortunately I'm too anal for that,<
GOOD and nothing unfortunate about it... we like anal around here..
you'll fit right in....
>I'm considering two approaches to deal with it. One is a product called LevelQuick at HD - looks simple enough to use.<
Ferget that stuff... leaves too much to be desired in the long run...
>I'll put in a marble threshold which I hope will act as a damn at the door< (that's the lowest spot).
Level and set to elevation of course...
>The other option comes from the article by Tom Meehan (FHB#106) decribing a 'modified mud job', which also recommends a metal lathe (over tar paper) followed by "a wet 50/50 mixture of portland cement and sand).<
Way too much work IMO...
and make that lath fer the floor and send the lathe to me...
no sense in burying it...
>Any comments on either of these methods for prepping the subfloor? I've read somewhere else that using latex paint on the subfloor will accomplish more or less the same thing as the tarpaper.<
NO PAINT!!!!! PERIOD....
you won't get material bonds..
>Comments? I'm about to prime the walls, so it would take no time to paint the floor too. Other recommendations?<
Elrey straight to the floor and skip the primer or paint..
in some cases the use of a "primer" is required... But it is application sensitive..
What's the deal with the various types of thinset? They range in price from $8 a bag to $25. Is the more expensive stuff better? (OK, I'm sure it's better in some respect, but is it better in any way that will matter to me on this project?)
What brands, types or what modifiers are in these different thinsets???..
Standard HO stuff or those from the 'poxy family...
>How do you cut out for the toilet hole?<
Diamond blade in yer right angle grinder or whittle away at it with a wet saw and nips after the flange is set...
be yurself about the fit...
>HD suggests<
PLEASE DISREGARD and suggest or how to imput from HD....
OK - hopefully I haven't started one of those "what's the best miter saw" threads, where there is no right answer (which reminds me - what do you think about the Hitachi 10" laser for $179 at Amazon/Toolcrib? jeez ... I think I just hijacked my own thread) ....
you did.. now go stand in the corner till you see the error of yur ways...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Imerc made some good suggestions. Check out this website ... they are dedicated to tile: johnbridge.com
The cheaspest thinset is not what you want. You need to use modified thinset. HD sells Custom brand and Lowes sells Mapei, and both are suitable if you get the right stuff. You don't need the most expensive, but for your small bath all you need is one bag so go ahead and get the best. Most thinset is grey, but white is available for a few dollars more. For some marble & granite, you must you white or else it will bleed through and stain the stone.
Be sure the tile the DW selected is rated for floor use. Wall tile tends to be thinner and glossy, and will be slippery when wet.
If you set the marble threshold before leveling the floor, be careful that you don't pour the leveler too high.
Don't get too hung up on the potty hole. Depending on the size tile and where the joints fall, you might be able to clip a few corners off with the wetsaw. And don't forget that a large area around the hole getys covered, so the fit doesn't have to be exact.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Tile questions. Best place I have found for answers is
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php?
Tec makes an excellent floor leveler. I saw a demonstration given by a specialty tile store owner who had installed tile for several decades and he recommended the product.
It is mixed with water and pours on the floor. It's completely self leveling. It can be used from feather edge up to 1" thickness as is, and up to 5" with aggregate. With it you won't need cement board.
It worked really well in the demonstration. There are two points he said were absolutely critical to follow. First, since the material is liquid, it will leak through any cracks or holes in the floor. So they all have to be sealed. You can use caulk, tape, foam rubber, or anything that will hold back a thick liquid. Second, it must be mixed with water in the exact proportion given on the bag. You must measure the water and use exactly what is specified. It is fairly unforgiving of being mixed too dry or too wet, and will not work if mixed by eye. He recommended mixing the entire container at once, with of course the leftover needing to be discarded.
You can use the product in the morning and set tile later the same day.
http://www.tecspecialty.com/product_detail.asp?prodId=7