So….. I went cabinet shopping, UGH! Looking at Kraftmaid. Originally wanted maple…found out that it really doesn’t take dark colors well. While perusing the displays I saw a cherry kitchen. I noticed that the panels in the raised panel doors were two different pieces of wood. I understand the reasoning but the color and sheen were so different. When I ran my hand across them, I could feel the split. I was so disappointed. I know that would bother me everyday.
Is this common among all manufacturers?
Replies
We got our cabinets from HD, American Woodmark I believe. We got the Frost Maple I believe, kind of a pickled look. One of our drawer fronts looked like a zebra. Smooth but had some very dark laminations.
I took it back to the store and was asking them to get a replacement, there was some contractor there who lit into a tirade about customers who bought this cheap #### and expected miracles. I just about went off on him.
Very satisfied with the product. I had a couple of doors with some finish "fluff". Called and they sent new doors, no question. Ended up rubbing out the problems.
so the contractor was just in there doing some other business? And why did he think you doors were his business? What an idiot.
If he was such an expert what was in HD for?
If the contractor was there, he was doing CHEEEP to.
Couple of things going on there. First, heart vs sapwood in cherry has very obvious color variations. While almost any monkey with one functioning eye can differentiate between them, I have yet to find a cabinet manufacturer who has such a monkey on the premises. I got to hang some fancy schmancy cabs in one small kitchen where the 17 boxes netted 24 grand, and the wood was poorly matched. What a deal.
There might be some that care enough to attend to such details, but they are not the average. The second is the glue line, and that is almost unavoidable. I'm sure you understand basic idea of wood moving, expansion and contraction and such. Now what could have happened is the glue wasnt fully cured and it got sanded to early, which left, when it dried, a shallow recess. Or there could just be enough temp / moisture difference between where they were made and where you are that things just moved that much.
I doubt #2. You're talking about movement over maybe 3/4" of space, thats got to be really, really small. I can see scenarios where the glue line showing might have been unavoidable, but unless they were made in the Mojave and you're in Seattle . . .
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
AC ,
Most manufacturers have a few select grades or lines . Just like door manufacturers have a select grade that has better grain and color match on door panels , you may have to ask for it and you will pay more for it .
The panel you describe almost sounds as though it was not completely surfaced if you could still feel the seam . My guess is that was shown deliberately as an example of what the majority of that style or line will look like so if the average buyer likes the display they probably won't complain about the job once delivered .
If the display was perfect you would expect all the doors to be perfect , they may not be .
Ready made cabinets have many applications but compared to quality custom made cabinets they are sort of a package deal like a bag of apples is less per unit but you can't select each one , it is what it is .
Best of luck
dusty
My father has a large shop that produces about 800-1000 wooden cabinet doors a day. Of the fast/cheap/good trio, they are fast, good, and expensive! If two pieces in a panel accepted stain differently, Dad's customers would send that door back.
And they do. There's a collection of sad stories that you can buy for $5 each.
Kraftmaid is a huge company that didn't get where it is by paying attention to detail. I'd recommend hunting around for a higher quality, smaller volume cabinet manufacturer. What you're looking for is out there, but seeing as you're in the U.S. I wouldn't know who to recommend.
(Dad also owns the old family farm, but doesn't farm it himself, in case any of you recall me mentioning the farm. This causes confusion with people who don't know the family.)
Also, the shop is a meritocracy that promotes people through the ranks. Unless I want to feed wood into a sander for years and years, there's no place for me there!Life is funny that way.
I'm knee deep into a cherry kitchen made by Star Mark I believe.
Junk cabinets. Junk panels, any board over 3" wide is glued up until they get to the desired width.
That means you get white boards edge glued to dark red boards. Looks terrible.
The plywood skins have a repeating grain pattern every 6 inches, once again terrible.
Luckily the HO's ordered these or I would have shipped almost everything back. They are fine with it, so I am fine with it.
Woods favorite carpenter
Matt & All ,
Maybe what we all need to remember is the average customer who instead of having cabinets custom made for more money and more lead time purchases modular or ready made cabinets is in a different group of buyers and may have a whole other set of expectations .
I sold and installed many modular cabinets about 20 years ago , as well as offering custom work . I installed enough to decide I wanted no part of them anymore .
The majority were junk then and many are still putting out inferior products .
But like you said the home owner was happy .
I had a retail showroom set up in my office at a rented shop I worked in for 8 years . I figured I could sell more boxes than I could build , well it sort of back fired .
When they came in to look at the modulars they saw whatever I was building or had ready for delivery and wanted a price on custom , and 7 or 8 times out of 10 I would build the job .
regards dusty
Once you go custom, you'll never go back.
I draw up a picture of what I want and the cabinetmaker comes by and meticuliously goes over every detail. Sometimes it makes me impatient, but he gets every detail.
Coupla weeks later, he delivers them raw. I put on two coats of watco fruitwood and rub dry as directed. Then I Frenchy them with amber shellac, two coats, scraping flat after with a utility knife blade. Then 3 to 4 coats of Target Coatings water based Ultima Spray Lacquer. Sweet.
Then my carps install them. And the cabinetmaker rehangs and adjusts the doors.
I just got three new oversized bathroom overthecan wall cabinets for $2350.
And You got to Love Frenchy !
Think we could begin the using his name as a verb? i.e., "Frenchy the cabinet."
HEEEEEY!!!!!!
that's Bob's title...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
How's about, "Frenchy the floor?"
done...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Yeah , or ,,,,,,,,, " The Frenchster "
Edited 1/10/2008 12:15 am ET by oldusty
This job should have been custom cabinets all the way, she used to own her own kitchen shop in Ohio and thought she could order off the shelf cabinets to make furniture with. I took the job being overly optimistic as usual.
It happened, but the cabinet "fit" isn't all that great. The factory bottoms that sit on a top are very bad and need scribe or shoe. The edge glueing boards is unsightly to me. I have to custom mix about 5 different colors of putty for each board I put a nail in.
She had the company cut a few costs and that has cost her much more in the long run.
Woods favorite carpenter
Been reading all the replies to your query, and I feel compelled to say something about the differences in cabinets. I sold Kraftmaid while at a big-box store, and I can't say I was overly impressed with them. However, KM is a semi-custom line, meaning you have some modifications available to you in construction type, dimensions and interior fittings. No semi-custom manufacturer that I know of actually pays much attention to the wood being joined for panels insofar as the match of grain, size of pieces, or final finish consistency. However, you should not have been able to feel any material joints, no matter the manufacturer.
I can tell you that there are some "custom" shops that don't pay any attention to these factors either. Custom is, well, oftentimes not really custom. Cabinetry is the sum of its parts, construction and finishing. Being made in a local shop doesn't mean it's better than what's made in a factory and vice versa.
What the better semi-custom manufacturers have offered the average consumer is a way to have cabinetry with good construction, the options they want and affordable price ranges. There is room for both types of cabinetry. It's just important to know the differences and make your decisions based on budget and what's important to you. Find a good, independent kitchen designer or specifier to help!
Thanks for your reply. You are definitely right about the market for custom and semi-custom. I found that many of the kitchen cab stores would carry a name like Kraft Maid or Wellborn and then carry a line from a "custom" cabinet maker. A lot of choices in the way the box was built was lost with the "custom" cabinet but choices in finish were more plentiful.
I ended up going with one of these places just to get the finish I wanted. It ends up, though, that I am paying more for all wood boxes that I do not think is necessary for me. I would have downgraded if possible. It wouldn't save alot since the money is all in the finish.
But that finish is beautiful!! Had a picture of the kitchen I wanted and this place had the exact finish. Once I saw it, I was sold! To the tune of $11,000.00 over budget!
It just seems that with just a little more care, the "ready made" cabinets could be so much better. Wellborn had the same issue with the door finish which is understandable because of the two pieces of wood but the joints could only very faintly be felt.
So glad you finally found what you needed! The finish drives 90% of the selection process for my clients...they will pay more to get exactly what they want, and I don't blame them. Unfortunately, like you, they sometimes have to upgrade beyond what they need to get that finish.
But, when it's all over, I don't want a client to walk into an expensive finished project and think "Gosh, I wish I had only....." We live for the "Gosh, I love this kitchen!!"
Thanks for your reply, also!!