I’m having a recurring problem with my van. I’m hoping to find some information from someone who’s had to deal with this before.
2000 Express. However many litres corresponding to 350 c.i. Minimal electric conveniences. Manual locks/windows, no cruise, no add ons, cd player with factory compatible jack replaced stock radio. Battery good.
On occassion after start: Put into gear, start out, radio goes off/dash idiot lights stay lit, engine quits. Usually restarts as normal. Might happen again in minutes, maybe not for a week. Never at highway speeds (thank god, steering and power brakes………..) Once, would not turnover, idiot lights worked. Returning later, started as usual. Yesterday, radio quit momentarily but motor stayed running.
Seems electrical for sure, and maybe ignition switch in particular. Anyone have a problem like this on a GM product and what was done to correct it?
thanks, the thought of cutting out on the hiway or having to abandon my toolbox on the side of the road is haunting.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Edited 11/18/2005 8:11 am ET by calvin
Replies
A guy I know was having similar trouble with his 2000 Pontiac Grand Am. It turned out to be related to the security system. Sometimes the car wouldn't recognize that special security key that comes with the car. The solution was a new key.
It was difficult to diagnose. Whenever the engine quit (like you, only when he first started it) he would have to wait something like 20 minutes before he could try again.
-Don
read a recent Popular Mechanics at BIL's last week, maybe this months issue. The car tech section has something about the resistor keys causing screwups like this.Could just be a bad ign switch at base of column, or or loose conn to it.
Bump.
Whats the "idiot light"?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I've seen a few really odd electrical problems that were simply ground problems.
ie: The ground strap from the engine to the frame was broken.
It's a long shot, but may be worth looking into.
I can't help on the electrical problem. Anything I would say has already been said.
But... >>>thanks, the thought of cutting out on the hiway or having to abandon my toolbox on the side of the road is haunting.<<<
I am VERY familiar with the feeling. That was a major problem when the clutch went completely out on my jimmy the other day.
Not only had most of a month's groceries in there, but probably a thousand dollars worth of tools as well. (They are/were in there because the truck DOES tend to need some "roadside service" now and then. LOL) The tools may not be worth a thousand, but that is what it would probably cost if I had to replace them new.
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
You are not the first person that I have heard this from in regards to Chevy/GMC trucks from around that years.
You might try to find out if there was a Technical Service Bulletin/Advisory for this problem or perhaps even a recall.
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
[email protected]
Thank you all.
There may be a special key, but no auto locks and the key doesn't look like my wifes Honda, which is one expensive brainy key. I have a replacement cut off the old one I may start using to see if that would maybe make a diff.
I will check for a bulletin, there is a recall on the power steering so I'm at least on the recall notification list.
Keep the suggestions coming, I'll pursue anything. All connections to the batt and ground appear in good condition.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Check at alldata.comThey will list any technical builtens if any on that problem.
Thanks Bill.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
How many pounds of keys do you have on your keyring?
Check the attachment for two more possibilities.
That's a great picture Ralph!
Couple house keys and the ignition, was told about the key poundage years ago by Miles Overholser. He knows trucks.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You'd think with the potential hot air there in that cab, a guy wouldn't need fuel.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
my father has a 2001 impala that experienced similar problems, then quit altogether. $1,600 and a removed dashboard later, the dealer determined that the "cluster" (part of the wiring harness?) went bad and had to be replaced, along with the radio.
i recall that the 65 mustang had a weird deal where you could hold down the brake, turn the left turn signal on, and turn on something else, and the radio would play without a key. but i have never before heard of a car that wouldnt run because the radio broke.
Try Chevy Talk. I have got some help there.
Bob
http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB11
I had mystery "tranny" problems with my chevy van ...
luckily the tranny shop owner had taken bunches of my money on the 2 previous vehicles so he took the time necessary to track down what looked to be an electrical tranny problem. After replacing every wire in the tranny ... and every wire leading to it ...
he got the idea to check the "ignition switch" ... not the key'd switch itself ... but the block of plastic under the steering column that the wires pass thru ... it's like a plastic junction block that a handful of wires plug into.
One lousy hidden fused wire had burned halfway thru.
find that wire block ... maybe 3 inches long ... by and inch by and inch .. or so.
and check all the connections and see if anything's arc'ing.
after he tracked mine down ... actually took maybe 4 months ... my van spent many long weekend's at his shop ... he'd drive it around all weekend to replicate the problem .... he got to solve the same thing again.
about a month after mine was working ... someone else came in with a "mystery tranny problem" ... theirs got solved a little quicker than mine!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I had an F150, my first "real" construction vehicle. Waaaaay too much of a load on that thing at all times but that is a different story.Anyways, I was beleaguered with electrical problems for about 6 months. I thought I had them all fixed (spending $800 on a truck with 190k on it will give you the feeling that this better be a good fix) until one day I lost forward motion and the truck couldn't shift out of neutral.Did I mention that I had chronic transmission problems as well? I was extremely surprised the transmission lasted me 45,000 miles, sometimes I thought I only had blocks to go...So I asked my FIL to help me. He was a bus mechanic with DC Metro Transit Authority for 25 years so I figured he would have some insight. I gave him a rundown of the truck's history and mentioned the tranny issues. He said "that transmission is finally at rest". Replacement was out of the question so I gave the truck away to a guy I worked with.He replaced the neutral safety switch and sold the truck for $1,800. Never even really said thank you for truck that he was going to use for parts, let alone the fact that he made a good bit of money off of it. But I'm not bitter...No advice for Cal, but I hope you find the root of the problem. If not I hear the Sprinter's are quite nice.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I've experienced similar problems at one time...though it was a stripped down 89' F150, manual tranny, no radio. Turn the ignition...no power, come back later...starts right up. On the road...shuts down by itself, turn the ignition...starts right up. Parked...turned off the ignition...key in hand, motor's still running!! CRazy!!! Anyways...replaced the the battery harness and ignition module on the steering colume...easy fix. Not proud...but on two separate occasions...added six quarts of oil!! Now that's bullet proof...sure miss that F150.
rustbucket
Edited 11/19/2005 2:04 am ET by rustbucket
I'm leaning towards that ign. switch or module, as I was from the start because of that radio cutout when the engine dies. The idiot lights staying on shows power available (like when you first turn on the key) but not after the ing. sw (radio can come on only when key on or in access. position. Now, if I can figure how to open all that up...........they don't want the availability of Hotwiring to be too easy. Then of course, ingnition switch or ignition module?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I second the ground strap vote. I worked on an 80's Pontiac Phoenix, one of those crappy A-cars, with similar problems, and a loose, dirty ground strap was the problem. A quick fix is to add additional grounds from the engine to the frame, from the battery to the frame, etc.350 cubic inches roughly equals 5.7 liters, by the way.Also, my brother has a late 90's Chevy Astro van with the 4.3 L engine that would cut out while driving of not start. There were no apparent electrical problems, i.e., everything worked, the engine cranked, but no fire. It turns out there was an intermittant (love that word!) problem with the electric fuel pump. This doesn't sound like your problem, but I offer it becuase this was a difficult one to track down.
We gave some thought to the fuel pump and I did get some tech advice from a mechanics site mentioning it. The radio cutout seems to suggest an electric problem preceeding the pump. The ground would suggest a complete electric cutout, but the idiot lights (seat belt fastened, etc.) come on immediately when the radio cuts out/engine dies.
I would like to thank you all for helping me troubleshoot this problem. When we find the source and correct it, I'm buyin'.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Ah yes.But will you be buying a switch or a module ?;o)
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
Not being addicted to beer, I guess would confuse you.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
What is this beer thing you speak of ?Is that before or after the switch and module ???
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
Depending on how dicted you are, before-during-after.
For those more advanced, probably the next morning.
Hair of the dog, you know.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You have dog hair in your switch and module ?No wonder you have problems with them.
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
On a more seriouser note: I said earlier that others had given you tha answer I would. Well I realized that that may be true technically, but no one has given you details yet. Knowing it may be a certain part helps, but not unless you know what to do and why...
I don't know if things have changed by the time your van was made... From the days of all the GMCs and Chevys that I have ever worked on, but the ignition and electrical actually works like this in all that I have worked on...
No electric parts are actually up at the switch itself. The ignition switch is all mechanical at the top of the steering column. The only electrical up there runs directly to the turn signal switch, the emergency flasher switch, the horn, wipers, etc.
There is a long metal rod (or two) that run down alongside the steering column. That rod is connected to the switch at the top, and a kinda flat plastic switch further down toward the base of the column. That switch at the bottom is a flat, slide switch.
If that switch down there is not perfectly adjusted, you can have the problems you have been describing.
It is possible for the switch to be out of adjustment on some parts inside, just enough to cut out intermittently like that. And yet the other parts inside the switch be close enough that they still work.
If you want to give it a try, here's the fix. It's a lot simpler than you may think. Getting to it, and seeing what you are doing, will be the headache...
This pic is of the steering column out of an S-10.
View Image
The very first thing to check, of course, (silly or simple as it may seem, I have seen it more than a dozen times...), is to make sure the connector from the wiring harness is really well seated on the switch.
Your switch may be further down the column than this one is. This was a tilt steering column.
The rod that the green arrow is pointing to, runs upward under the shroud of the steering column, to the ignition switch. The other end is captured under the actual electrical switch. The ugly, rusty metal and plastic thing that is in the center of the pic.
To adjust that switch, you slightly loosen the two bolts that are red arrowed. The holes in the switch are elongated, as you can see in the enlargement at the top right. Loosen those two bolts, and slide the switch to adjust it.
Do not loosen the bolts enough for the switch to come off, or for the rod to slip out of the back of the switch.
Trial and error is the best way to figure out the best adjustment.
I usually loosen the bolts, hold the rod still, (Got to make sure it stays absolutely still), then slide the switch either way until I feel something inside kind of fall into a detent position. The tighten the bolts back up.
For a few weeks, you may want to leave the under dash cover for that area off, and keep the wrench handy that fits those two bolts. That way, if it doesn't work perfectly the first time, you can reach back up under there and adjust it again, until it does always work.
BTW: the half moon shaped switch further down the column is the nuetral safety switch and backup lights. Leave that one alone.
=0)
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
Sounds like a security isssue to me. We have a Impala and it had the same problem of not starting on differnt occasions they chnged the ignition switch and rekeyed it works fine now.
Okay...Okay...I stand corrected - Ignition Switch...Ignition Switch. Cylinder Lock connected to the ignition switch connected to the actuator rod mounted on the steering column...hope this helps...Best of Luck.
rustbucket