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Discussion Forum

Client Trouble; Part V!!!! THE END!!!

| Posted in General Discussion on June 29, 2003 08:39am

Hi All,

For those of you who have followed this thread and given me advice along the way I just have to add the-hopefully-final chapter.

Last we left you the rep had been out and blessed the installation to the HO’s chagrin. I was all set to get back and trim the doors out within a day or so.

In the mean while the HO decided the rep was colluding with me and now she’s after him and is trying to get a higher level rep out with HD mgr’s-yes plural.

It finally occurred to me that since every call begins with “the doors have to come out because (fill in any lame excuse you can imagine)” that the HO just doen’t like the doors and is going to all lengths to get them replaced for free.

The GC is on the line for quite a loss as the whole job is held up and in my opinion should be written off-walked away from. I’ll back him up in court but have said I won’t go back to that job for anything!

I hate to hang out the GC but would YOU go back to such a job for anyone?

N

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  1. nigelUsa | Jun 29, 2003 11:11pm | #1

    So noboby has cracked yet and told the HO she is not going to get the doors for free or installation of new doors for free! You really could do with someone to tell her to"stop being a cheap ..... and open up the wallet and payup if she don't like it now!!" 'cause technically the doors are just right!

    1. User avater
      Qtrmeg | Jun 30, 2003 12:20am | #2

      I believe that was were I was going with the last thread he posted.

      This guy is worse than Larry.

      Good fuel for a whine fest tho...

      1. User avater
        Luka | Jun 30, 2003 01:11am | #3

        What guy ? Notrix ? Or his GC ?

        If Notrix, you have got to be kidding. Nothing about this series of threads is anything at all like Larry's.

        I found it interesting to follow. I would daresay that others did as well. If you found it whiney, then you should have put it on ignore.

        To insult the guy adds nothing of any benefit to anyone. It is simply an insult. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.

        Quittin' Time

        1. User avater
          Qtrmeg | Jun 30, 2003 02:29am | #8

          <snip> check your facts, Ding dong, and make sure what you want to do is rattle my cage.

          1. User avater
            Luka | Jun 30, 2003 03:15am | #10

            Qtrmeg,

            I have built up a lot of respect for you over time.

            You are obviously intelligent. You have a great deal of wit and creativity. You are a good problem solver, and have well above common sense.

            I am left wondering why someone with your obvious abilities, so often takes the lazy road of kicking down the barn ? It takes so much less thought and turning of wit, to simply insult people. Even when you couch it in wording that gives you an out later, if called on it.

            You are capable of so much better than that.

            Facts. As I saw it, the post I was responding to was a construct of the above type. A simple insult, couched in words that would give you an out, if someone called you on it. Period. I still see it that way.

            As for your cage, you can stuff it where the sun doesn't shine. You obviously don't need an excuse to act like a jerk anyway. Apparently you only need boredom. If you want to go on attack, go right ahead. Don't expect me to follow along and give validity to your particular brand of playtime.

            You post with civility and a lack of insult, and I will respond with same. But I will not play at childish, mentaly lazy games of insult and counter-insult. If yer bored, go find a stick and whittle on it. Leave people's id's alone.

            A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.

            Quittin' Time

      2. NOTRIX1 | Jun 30, 2003 02:05am | #5

        Oh..

        Don't take it like a whine fest. I was just sharing how weird things can get for no particular reason. Back about chapter 2 or 3 I was all about making the client happy and covering my bases. Then how to get out gracfully and save the GC some hassles. Now I just give up.

        I have about 15 years in the trade the GC close to 30-12 as a GC and neither one of us have ever experiecned anything remotely like this.

        It finally occured to me the HO probably just doesn't like her doors and wants them replaced on someone elses nickel.

        At this point it's funny except the GC still is going to have to deal with it one way or another.

        I learned a good lesson though. Several in fact.

        If you guys think I'm whining; I'll stop updating. If your curious as to what happens on the GC's end I'll be happy to report.

        Thanks,

        N

        1. User avater
          IMERC | Jun 30, 2003 02:10am | #6

          Stay with the up dates.

        2. FastEddie1 | Jun 30, 2003 02:23am | #7

          The story has dragged a little, and sometimes I wonder why I was reading every message, etc, but overall it has been an interesting story and I want to hear how it ends.  It also makes me thankful for the customers I have.  Some learning experiences just aren't worth experiencing...

          Do it right, or do it twice.

        3. User avater
          Qtrmeg | Jun 30, 2003 02:31am | #9

          Luka is the one with happy problems, I posted what I thought here >>>http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=32276.3

          Not pretty guy, good luck with the nut.

    2. DaveHeinlein | Jun 30, 2003 01:41am | #4

      At this point, I think it would feel *good* to be able to smack her in the face with reality. You can be polite and nice for only so long.

  2. User avater
    SamT | Jun 30, 2003 03:18am | #11

    Notrix

    Please ignore the anal orifices in our crowd, and keep the updates coming. I find this a very interesting thread.

    SamT

    Sleepless in Columbia.
    Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?

    1. rez | Jun 30, 2003 03:39am | #12

      anal orifices.

      Now that's an interesting use of gentlemen's english.

      Is that anything like calling sheetrock drywall or drywall sheetrock?

       

       

    2. NOTRIX1 | Jun 30, 2003 03:44am | #13

      As long as it's interesting-I guess I'll have to be the judge of that-I'll keep ya'll up dated.

      I don't have such a good memory anymore and I may repeat myself but I'll try to keep it concise.

      Right no the GC is just trying to figure out wether to contact the HO or his lawyer or pretend it never happened and maybe it'll go away.

      I'm done.

      N

    3. User avater
      Qtrmeg | Jun 30, 2003 03:50am | #14

      Do you have something you want to say to me?

      It seems like you do...

    4. User avater
      Qtrmeg | Jul 02, 2003 03:57am | #37

      Sorry Sam.

      1. User avater
        SamT | Jul 02, 2003 07:25am | #42

        NO problem, brother.

        It was unlike you, so I figured you were having a bad day, and I took no offense. We are all entitled to a bad day now and then.

        At least I hope that I am entitled, cuz I "go off" sometimes too and I hope that when it happens everybody will understand that it is ME and not THEM.

        SamTSleepless in Columbia. Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?

  3. rez | Jun 30, 2003 04:04am | #15

    a new one.

    So now that our vocabulary is continually expanding, could limeboard be an appropriate synonym?

     

     

    1. Poolman | Jul 06, 2003 06:19pm | #47

      compressed cellulose encased, pressed gypsum dwelling inner wall sheathing?

      1. rez | Jul 07, 2003 01:54am | #48

        hey, now we're getting somewhere!

         

         

        1. User avater
          Dinosaur | Jul 07, 2003 07:09am | #49

          "Gyprock"--it's a brand name up here. Gets used about like 'Aspirin' does down in the states. (Up here, aspirin is called 'ASA'--for acetosalicylic acid--unless Bayer makes it.) I actually saw a sheet of gypsum board made labelled 'Gyprock' once--from a distance.

          My old man used to call it either sheetrock or plasterboard. And we used 'Spackle' on it--came in a nice orange and blue cardboard box, if memory serves....

          Remember the little blue nails?

          Dinosaur

          'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

          1. User avater
            SamT | Jul 07, 2003 07:14am | #50

            Whahoppen to "Client Trouble"???

            SamTSleepless in Columbia. Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?

  4. geob21 | Jun 30, 2003 05:00am | #16

    So back to the original thread, and for those of you boys that want to argue take it some where else.(start a new thread)

    For the price of this job at $9,000.00 either the customer is supplying material or the GC is on drugs.  I'll assume they are supplying materials since she's getting Depots managers involved and would have no buisness bothering the GC's suppliers.

    With that assumed the GC can still pull this out  by explaining in writing and getting signed exactly what tolerences will be held on the rest of the finished materials and anything above those will be billed at say $95.00/ hour.

    You installed a door within acceptable tolerences for everyone in the known universe except her so bill her $95/hour till she's happy. It's her door.  She paid to have it installed. You installed it and it works fine. So after that point she pays because it's extra work.

    A customer complaining about a door out by 1/32" is going to have a hayday with tile. I'd write up a spec sheet on the tile install allowing say 1/4" difference between any tile in any plane as being acceptable. I'd also stipulate that the customer must inspect each tile as it is laid and if laid within the 1/4" will be billed accordingly for each tile reset to their standards. Then I'd throw in any tile needing replacement before grout is a flat $700.00 and after grout is $1200.00

    A contract is a "Meeting of minds" and this job is anything but. The customer is bent on getting something for nothing so you gotta hit them in the pocket book, if they can afford it great but don't expect champagne on a beer budget.

    __________________________________________________________________

    If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
    1. User avater
      Qtrmeg | Jun 30, 2003 05:17am | #17

      Ya, you have a plan.

      What color is your cape?

      Go get some rest, and try not to hurt yourself.

      1. Piffin | Jun 30, 2003 05:45am | #18

        sheesh, Qtrmeg. Is this "Lady" your girlfriend or something?.

        Excellence is its own reward!

        1. Sancho | Jun 30, 2003 06:24am | #19

          I personally like this thread. I have learned alot by following it. For one I learned there is some things I should be adding to my contracts. Not to mention to be screening the clients with just as much scrutiny as they do me.

          I would like to follow this the its conclusion. 

          Darkworks:  No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.

        2. xMikeSmith | Jul 01, 2003 05:21am | #26

          hey...  leave qtrmg  alone... he's  pissed cuz it finally stopped snowing... stopped raining .. and he's gotta work thru black fly season... hell... u'd be touchy too..

          c'mon matty.. show 'em your  net hat .....

          speaking about whining stories.....did i tell you how good my propane generator is workin  ?Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          1. Piffin | Jul 01, 2003 05:43am | #27

            No. I've never had a propane generator. Do they whine?

            Mine is an Onan gas chug-a-lugger. It just grumbles.

            I think everybody should have one customer like this sometime in their life. Think of it as boot camp - preparation for if you have to meet up with the devil.

            ;).

            Excellence is its own reward!

          2. xMikeSmith | Jul 01, 2003 06:05am | #28

            i've met her... and she is a he.....

            and i met her again.. that time she was a she...

              and i may have met him again... this time it's like tag -team wrestling....

             hah, hah, hah.....good thing i went thru boot campMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          3. Piffin | Jul 01, 2003 06:19am | #29

            Huh?

            I meet Matt too. He sure ain't a she, tho sometimes he's got an attitude like a she bear with cubs!

            .

            Excellence is its own reward!

          4. xMikeSmith | Jul 01, 2003 06:22am | #30

            no, no, no... yur gonna get me hung out to dry... i ain't talking a bout matt..

             i'm talking about clients i've known and hoped to avoid in the future...

            you just  never know until you get into it do you ?Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          5. Piffin | Jul 01, 2003 06:48am | #31

            No. Someone mentioned learning from this thread how to avoid clients like this.

            Um Hm!

            clients like this hide their true self until it's too late. The complaint is just her cover to avoid payment..

            Excellence is its own reward!

          6. CAGIV | Jul 01, 2003 07:26am | #34

            would have been funnier if you said a she dog, then I could make a joke about you calling Qtr a b!tch, but NOO... you ruined it :)

            BTW school out, I in mucho better mood :)Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.

          7. Piffin | Jul 01, 2003 11:22pm | #35

            I think we all deserve some credit for ruining it - this thread that is..

            Excellence is its own reward!

          8. steve | Jul 08, 2003 12:02am | #51

            dont know about all you guys in different areas, but here in sarnia we have an unprinted unspoken sxxt list

            pretty informal but if a client of mine gets on it, a hundred guys will know in a week

            its as  good as a bad credit report around here

            liars, cheats, nsf cheques, no problemcaulking is not a piece of trim

          9. User avater
            Qtrmeg | Jul 02, 2003 04:06am | #39

            Piff >>> "I've never had a propane generator. Do they whine?"

            Mike's is so quiet you would hardly know it was running. ;-) 

          10. User avater
            Luka | Jul 01, 2003 07:06am | #32

            I dared to give Matt grief, because I care.

            Matt is a decent guy. But even decent guys, myself included, need to be reminded every once in a while of the basic rules that form a decent society. No one else that cares about him seemed to have the guts to tell him that he makes an arse of himself every once in a while, when he begins to attack, bellitle, and/or insult good people. An insult is an insult. An "excuse" doesn't make it right.

            Hindsight being better than fore, if I had known the amount of grief that he might have gotten, I might not have said anything at all.

            I did not intend what I said to be a punch in the nose. I do care. I like him. Others like him. It hurts to see the talents he has, wasted on destructive behaviour. I did not want to whack his knuckles about it, though. I simply wanted to point it out, and hope that he would see it clearly enough on his own.

            He has proven himself to otherwise be a prudent, wise, and caring person. One that I would be proud to call friend in person.

            If it can be dropped right here, I would appreciate it.

            Please.

            A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.

            Quittin' Time

          11. Wet_Head | Jul 01, 2003 07:16am | #33

            Luka, that was one of your best posts ever.

          12. User avater
            Qtrmeg | Jul 02, 2003 04:04am | #38

            pretty close; freezing with no end, rain with no end, and heat up the yingyang. How do you spell mosquito's? Add three nutcase clients and we could have some fun.

            So what is all the fuss about?

          13. Piffin | Jul 02, 2003 04:37pm | #43

            " How do you spell mosquito's? "

            Just like potatoes, with an E

            ;).

            Excellence is its own reward!

          14. User avater
            teasea | Jul 03, 2003 08:50am | #44

            ALASKAS state bird! cupcakes compaird to the white sock the venom of a white sock is 3 tines more powerful than a rattle snake, I was nailed by one yesterday above my left eye and now it is swelled shut .bugs suck!

          15. Fez | Jul 05, 2003 06:31pm | #45

            Teconail,

            Is that you in the picture on your profile?! If so, I have seen you before, man. - You're famous! - I saw the story of the fella that shot that enormous bear. The pictures were incredible!

            Fez

          16. User avater
            teasea | Jul 06, 2003 06:29am | #46

            no that is not me. but he bear was shot near where I live, what a monster although I dont think it was as big as claimed still thats a big bear

  5. User avater
    BossHog | Jun 30, 2003 03:36pm | #20

    Thanks for the update.

    I never took it as whining, as someone in this thread said. It's always interesting to follow a story like this.

    It seems to me that one job in about every 50 just goes bad. Like God wants to teach you how to deal with difficult customers or something. And once they start going bad, they just keep going bad. I don't know anyone in the trades who hasn't had at least one job like that.

    I like you. That's why I'm going to kill you last. -- Arnold in Commando

    1. User avater
      IMERC | Jun 30, 2003 04:41pm | #21

      I agree with Boss..

      Some times others have to take a roll thru the rose garden. You've given a good heads up to as to what to look for in dealing with some clients.

      I have one of my own.... Anal to the likes that is difficult to comprehend. 

      Keep the up dates coming.  

  6. OldHouseFan | Jun 30, 2003 05:43pm | #22

    "How dare you give me grief! Get your facts right before you play with me again, or I will tear you a new one!"

    LOLOL Weenies with message board muscles are always so amusing.

  7. User avater
    GoldenWreckedAngle | Jun 30, 2003 06:48pm | #23

    Hey notrix,

    For future reference - No beef with the continuous updates but it would have been much easier to follow if you hadn't broken this saga up into separate threads. People reading it in the future will have a hard time finding all of the pieces to the story.

    Kevin Halliburton

    "I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity."  - I.M. Pei -

    1. NOTRIX1 | Jun 30, 2003 07:03pm | #24

      "much easier to follow if you hadn't broken this saga up into separate threads."

      Believe me I wish it was a one day one post affair. Most of you have to be thinking I'm exageratting a bit but I'm actually simplifying it.

      I'll try to come back just one more time with what the GC did.

      It'll be a while I'm sure.

      N

      1. User avater
        GoldenWreckedAngle | Jun 30, 2003 07:18pm | #25

        Just add updates to the bottom of the existing thread and it will pop it right back to the top of the forum and everyone will know that something new has been posted.

        When you start a new thread for every update anyone who reads that update will have to do a search for the preceding threads. Frankly, the search feature of this forum sucks - few people will bother and the ones who do will probably not be successful so "the rest of the story" will essentially be lost to anyone who hasn't been following your posts from the very beginning.

        Just a suggestion, not a beef... carry on.Kevin Halliburton

        "I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity."  - I.M. Pei -

      2. User avater
        Qtrmeg | Jul 02, 2003 03:56am | #36

        Notrix, come back as often as you want, just keep things tidy, please? Sunday, (?), you had two threads, too many. This IS an interesting topic, but it is a shame it is spread all over the Prospero map.

        Hey, feel free to start another, because if Luka keeps poking me in the eye with a stick, no one will find much pleasure in this one.

        In any case, don't be shy because things got a little "interesting".

        1. User avater
          Luka | Jul 02, 2003 05:38am | #40

          Matt,

          No more poking from here.

          It was never my intention to "poke you with a sharp stick". Seriously.

          If I came across that way, I am sincerely sorry.

          A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.

          Quittin' Time

        2. NOTRIX1 | Jul 02, 2003 05:40am | #41

          I get it.

          It was 2 separate but related issues the GC's dilema being a later thought.

          Sorry if I'm I'm thinking too much through but I'm dead set on getting my GC liscense and want to avoid this nonesense as much as possible.

          It's been a real eye opener to me. The GC may have gotten a little complacent and not covered all his bases judging by his concerns of which way this is gonna go for him. I'll concentrate on getting good approved contracts on most of my jobs with all the particualrs spelled out as much as possible. I'm not fooling myself into thinking I can make problems go away this way but it's important to know where the reverse gear or kill switch is when you need it.

          Is there a "pain in the butt" clause that some of you write in your contracts? At least something that says if the HO holds up jobs for too long for no reason the contract is null and void if not allowing a lein to be put in place.

          N

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