Closet flange, tile underlayments, etc.
OK, I’m fixing up my 1st floor half bath after the toilet ring failed (more like disappeared down the drain somehow). Originally I thought the flange would be lower than the finished floor. It looks like I may have the opposite now…here’s why (and this makes me wonder if the previous homeowner had any common sense at all.)
- Started to peel off vinyl floor…entire 1/4 plywood floor that vinyl was attached to came up in one piece…it wasn’t glued, stapled, or nailed down at all…gives “floating floor” a whole new meaning…plywood was warped so that is most likely what caused the toilet to rock.
- 3 layers of “peel and stick” vinyl tiles were found next.
- 2 more layers of 1/4 plywood was found
- 1 final layer of what may be 3/4 plywood
Upon further inspection, the flange and section of drain waste pipes under the bathroom look “newer” than the rest of the pipes. I suspect that during one of the many renovations the house had, someone put in a new drain pipe and flange.
So…here is what I’m thinking…
- Remove all flooring down to joists (have to since the original plywood is warped and sagging…visbible from basement.)
- Install a new 3/4 layer of plywood
- Install a new underlayment for tile but what kind? Denseshield? Concrete backer board? Or another plywood board?
- Thinset ceramic tile (hopefully the finished floor will be the same height as the flange.)
What do I do if the flange looks like it will be higher than the finished floor? Should I add more plywood before the tile underlayment step to ensure that the finished floor is at least as high as the flange? Is there a better solution?
Thanks in advance.
Replies
Perhaps more to the point - what does the bathroom floor need to align with - i.e. what flooring is outside the bathroom door?
The toilet flange should sit on top of the finished floor - sounds like tile in your case - may require some pipe work.
Assuming properly sized and spanned joists underneath. 3/4" t&g STURD-I-FLOOR rated plywood is sufficient for most tiles, glued and annular ring nailed or screwed to joists. Then depending on elevation needed to align with outside floor you could use HardiBacker in either 5/16" (1/4"?) or 1/2" thickness.
Sounds like you may need to add some additional or thicker plywood to get anywhere close to elevation needed. Rule of thumb for years was 1-1/8" wood under tile but everybody seems to have backed off a bit. Thicker will never hurt.
Multiple layers of plywood should be "laminated" together with PL and lots of fasteners.
My floor schedule goes like this - Sturdifloor rated plywood to elevation X, #30 felt (stapled, and seams taped with Tyvek tape), thinset, Hardibacker (screws 8" oc), thinset, tile.
Before anyone asks - the felt functions as a release membrane which allows a bit of movement and a moisture barrier. The thinset under the Hardibacker fills any voids between the backer and the subfloor to prevent flexing of the backer ( Hardi recommended).
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You have many issues that may be better addressed at John Bridge, a tile Forum.
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php
Chuck S
its easy enough to cut the closet flange from the waste pipe then install a new flange when the finish floor is in place.
I might be a bit old school but I always have 1 1/4" of plywood under ceramic. usually 3/4" subfloor and 1/2" underlayment.
there are some other products out there you can use for underlayment and they might be better as far as water resistance goes but two layers of plywood offer better rigidity
I just spent 2 hours chipping a 1 x 1 tile from a plywood underlayment and I can tell you that floor is never going to come loose