What is the average height of a Carbon Monoxide detector?? The device is now installed hanging from a ceiling in a basement next to a furnace, and soon next to a refridgerator…..I thought they were supposed to be in an outlet or at standard outlet height (14″ or so) I do know they are not supposed set next to a dryer…(they set off automatic alarms when set near a dryer)….I can’t remember if it’s ok to be next to a furnace.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail…BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying “Damn…that was fun”!
Replies
I tend to mount them low outside sleeping areas. About the height of the receptacles as I have been told CO sinks and it keeps the detector out of the obvious line of sight. Makes it less obtrusive.
Typically in the hall where it is less likely to be buried behind stuff is good IMO. That it might get vacuumed once in a while, plugged with dust bunnies they don't work well, won't hurt either.
thats how I feel also...I'm just looking for reassurance that mounting on the ceiling is not good.
Thanks for the responce though 4LORN1.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun"!
>>CO sinks
No it doesn't. That's CO2
>>and it keeps the detector out of the obvious line of sight. Makes it less obtrusive.
Ahh, would you rather be alive or have an unobtrusive CO detector?
You want a digital readout type and you want to mount it where it will always be in sight!
Save the "unobtrusive" for your hospital room. The CO detector will blend right in with the other monitors and oxygen mask.
The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 11/4/2004 10:32 pm ET by Bob Walker
There are conflicting opinions among the "experts" as to where to mount them.
My opinion, as someone who regularly does CO analysis and sometimes does emergency response for a few local FDs.
First: The Type to Get
Get a good one. Don't bother with the $20 or the combined CO and smoke alarm. They aren't very sensitive.
The $20 ones might save you from killer levels, but they won't protect you against the potentially serious, long term health effects of low level exposure.
At a minimum get the $40-50 ones with an LED readout.
If there is anyone with high sensitivity, get the $100-130 low level monitor (see http://www.aeromedix.com or the new one at the National Comfort Institute's web site - just saw one a month ago and it looks really good. - Later edit: The National Comfort Institue monitor is only available at retail through contractors and home inspectors - to locate one a contractor or HI who carries them, call the National Comfort Institue's 800 number avaialable at their website and they can give you a referral.)
High sensitivity includes: pregnant people, infants up to 18-24 months, elderly, people with heart conditions, immune system issues, chemical sensitivity, or prior CO poisoning.
Second: Where to Put It
One on each living level.
I think it is better to mount it 12-18" from the ceiling then at receptacle height.
When I've done emergency response testing, the CO levels have always been higher at ceiling level. CO is about the same weight as other components of air, (except CO2 which is really heavy.)
CO usually gets into living areas as part of hot fumes though, and it is initially concentrated at ceiling level, but you need to stay away from wall/ceiling intersections because they can be "dead zones" for air movement.
Also, if the is high CO getting into a space, there is usually very high CO2 in there as well, and it can fill the lower levels and block CO from a low mounted CO detector. (That's theory, I haven't seen it actually block a low mounted detector myself, but it makes sense based on everything I have seen.)
Do not mount them where the air will be significantly moved by a ceiling fan.
Put your first one in or near sleeping rooms. (In- if there is a sensitive person or only one bedroom in use, near- if several bedrooms are in use.)
Put the second one in your family room or any other room people hang out in a lot.
If you have a fireplace or other combustion appliance (gas heater) put one (preferably a low level monitor) in that room.
If you have to use a "ventless" gas heater, you must (Bob's Rule) use a low level monitor in that room.
If you want to get another one, put it in the utility room.
If It Goes Off
If it doesn't have a digital readout, leave. Leave Now. Turn the stove off, and thermostat down, and immediately bug out. Call for help from outside (cell phone or a neighbor's house.)
Do not open windows or doors to aerate. (Bob's Rule - others disagree. Many firefighters will tell you to open windows and doors. Your alarm can be set off by a smoldering fire in the house. In my opinion, you do not want to give it any fresh air.)
Call a good heating contractor. If you call the FD or or your gas company, do not believe anything they tell you unless the person you are talking to has been certified in CO analysis by the National Comfort Institute or the Building Performance Institute.
If You Have a Digital Readout Type
9- 35 Call an HVAC or other CO expert. The level isn't dangerous now, but you need to find out how it is getting into the living space.
If there is a sensitive person, get him or her out. Now
35-100 Healthy adults can stay to await the expert. I wouldn't.
Over 100. Leave immediately. Call for help from outside (cell phone or a neighbor's house.)
(If anyone tells you "not to worry, those alarms are always going off for no good reason," get it in writing, together with a copy of their E&O or malpractice insurance policy and carrier's name, their liability limits, and the name of their lawyer.
Tell them they can stay in the house and to breath deeply.)
The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 11/22/2004 10:19 am ET by Bob Walker
Bob the only thing I would disagree on is the levels on the led. If ANY cheap detector alarms, I would leave until I knew it was safe. I'm not to confident on the reliabilty of having an accurate measurment.
I've been in a room that had over 1000ppm. Somedays I believe in Angels.
>>Bob the only thing I would disagree on is the levels on the led. If ANY cheap detector alarms, I would leave until I knew it was safe. I'm not to confident on the reliabilty of having an accurate measurment.I don't entirely agree, but I think that is a very reasonable approach - better safe that sorry!The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
CO is a product of incomplete combustion (the fire is burning with too little oxygen available) and is heated which means it will rise, so that the upper area of the room is the ideal spot for installation. Also, even without a heating appliance in use, any home with an attached garage where a vehicle could sit with its' engine running should have a CO detector, because in many homes, CO can work its' way into the home from the garage.
And we should remember that a WORKING smoke detector may well notify you before the CO detector is activated.
Good post Bob Walker.
The local news today just had a story of a father of 2 found dead in his basement bathroom (next to the probable leaky furnace heat exchanger) of CO poisoning.
http://www.komotv.com/stories/33810.htm
Where you have it is fine.
CO is a molecular weight of 12+16 = 28.
N2/O2 air is 21% O2 at 16+16 = 32 and 78% of N2 at 14+14 = 28, plus a few heavier molecules
So, CO is slightly lighter than air, and will tend to rise.
My own CO detectors are 5 feet off the floor; however, the miscibility of air and CO is such that it will be pretty constant mixtures thruout any open area or room where CO is present. (common sense note on miscibility of air components -- O2 and N2 stay pretty well mixed from seal level to mountain tops)
So, location (as long as it is in the free air space of a room and not in the back of a bookshelf or such) is not very important, the most important thing is to have one if you have a gas furnace, fireplace, woodstove, etc.
Carbon monoxide has almost exactly the same density as air. The CO detector can be mounted at any height, so long as there's decent airflow. I installed an outlet next to a hard-wired smoke detector for one of ours -- just "borrowed" power from the smoke detector's box and used an old work box in the same stud cavity.
thanks alot guys...very helpful.talk to ya soon.A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun"!
as close to the floor as you can get..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
.. as close to the floor as you can get..
Why?
So you can see the flashing light as you lay there choking.
CO is heavier than O2
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
No, it is not.CO is made of Carbon (atomic weight = 6) and Oxygen (8).
O2 is made of two Ox (8 + 8).
Air is made of O2 and Nitrogen (7) and some other things.The fact that CO is slightly lighter than air does not mean that it will all float to the ceiling, it is pretty well soluble in air.I think that you were thinking of CO2, which is heavier than air.And, CO poisoning will not make you cough or choke. It slowly poisons you internally.
Seems to me that co poisioning makes you drowsy, then you fall asleep, then that's it.
>>Seems to me that co poisioning makes you drowsy, then you fall asleep, then that's itIt can, but it can also cause a lot of other symptoms: it is often mis-diagnosed as flu.And its medical effects can be long lasting and significant.The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
c 12
o 16
molecular wt 28
air 29 so about the same
mount where the manufacturer tells you
The most important placement is the plug into a outlet. A couple of years ago there was a story in the local news where a family received a CO detector as a gift. The son wanted to try it out and finally the father let the son plug it in and left it on the table, he would worry about it tomorrow. And you can probably guess what happened next, the dam thing goes off that night. A lot of annoyed, groggy people who were woken up and are still alive. The vent on the water heater had come disconnected.
My Nighthawk picked up a cracked heat exchanger in a house that I had rented a few years ago. The old house was so drafty that it never registered until we had a couple of dead calm days, thank god for Kansas's winds. A friend brought over the fire departments CO2 detector and the readings were the same.
Bob knows CO.
:)
And Aeromedix has a great unit...they measure CO levels much lower than the Home Depot models (which start measuring at 30 ppm...people have sensitivities to levels as low as 10, especially when exposed over a long period of time). We've got Aeromedix.
In college, I worked as a secretary for the Dean of Aviation Administration at Purdue. These guys know safety.
Here's a good summary article written pretty clearly:
http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/art/co/
CO poisoning will not make you cough or choke. It slowly poisons you internally
That's right, it's displacing "breathable" oxygen. The victim becomes cyanotic slowly as the body tries to conserve the oxygen saturation levels in the blood. Just like with hypoxia, the victim tends to feel effects similar to intoxication before losing consciousness. Not a good combo.
Unless there are other products of combustion present, like those from a less-efficient flame than on a furnace, dryer, or DHW burner--like a house fire. The CO levels usually build up higher than the irritant levels from PCs, though. Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
CO from combustion settles / sinks...
settled CO detects faster / more readily and in higher concetrations...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Putting a co detector low is il-advised.First, CO is about the same weight as most other elements which air is made up of, so it will tend to evenly mix in room air: EXCEPT: when it first gets into a living space, it is part ofcombustion by-products and will first show up at a higher (ceiling) level.This isn't just theory - I have measured this effect a number of times with a high quality meter.Second, if you are getting combustion gases in a living space, a major component is CO2 - carbon dioxide. It is the heaviest major element of air, by a significant amount.It too will first show up high, but fairly quickly sinks to floor level, where it will exclude CO and even O2, if there is enough.I have measured this, also.And, if you are in a combustion zone, that CO2 will displace oxygen and the CO output from the combustion can rapidly increase to extremely high levels becasue of the lack of oxygen in the combustion air.Yep, seen that, also.Putting a CO detector low is the worst place to put it.The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace