I’m doing some remodeling for a client right now who just asked me a couple days ago about coating his cedar roof. He bought this house three years ago, and the roof was approx. five years old then. Right after he bought it, some guy showed up and convinced him that he should have it coated, which he did. But now he’s wondering if it should be a regular process or really isn’t necessary. I don’t know much about cedar shake roofs. This one was beautifully installed, but I’m pretty sure there’s nothing like Cedar Breather under the shakes. It looks as though there are VERY heavy strips of felt or even rolled roofing applied under each course of shakes. This is northwest of Chicago, in case locale and climate should be considered in your responses. The shakes appear to have a sawn back with a hand-split face, so perhaps this allows enough ventilation to keep them in good shape? Thanks for the insight.
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he shakes appear to have a sawn back with a hand-split face, so perhaps this allows enough ventilation to keep them in good shape? Thanks for the insight. >>
Not!
If its got "strips" of felt under each course I'm guessing they're (hopefully) on skip sheathing which are wood strips spaced apart allowing air to get around most of the shingle. No access to the attic so you can't see?? If it was installed right on ply with no cedar breather or anything to lift the shingles a bit the shingles days are numbered.
I did my roof (see my web site below) 2-3 summers ago. I probably installed about five million square up there....lol.
I never heard of coating a roof although i guess you could but you'd need to do it every year cause no coating I know of is going to last. It'd also have to be a penetrating oil and not one that acts like paint or laquer does. I'd be leary of doing that on my roof just because of fire issues from the chimmney. Most people just let them be once they're installed. The only thing you should do is add zinc strips accross both sides of the peak to keep the moss from growing.
BTW..I did see in the Cedar Burea's website a ways back a cedar shingle thats made that you CAN put right over a ply deck. Not sure how well it works and if they actually used those. I'm guessing that cedar breather makes it far less expensive than those treated shingles.
Oh yeh...you sure theres rolled roofing under it or is what you're seeing Water and Ice Shield which would be installed under the first three feet just above the gutters? I'm guessing thats what it is.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
BS Andy. The strips of felt interwoven are standard installation and should be done with this type of shake. Eliminating the felt weave would likely create leaks. As I recall, your house was shingles rather than shakes. That calls for a different installation procedure.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
He wasted his money getting them coated.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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I am in the pacific NW did lots of shake roofs, We find the best thing to do is shingle oil the roof, They sell this in 5 gallon buckets at our oil distributor, If a shake roof is installed correct oiled and roughly oiled every 3 to 6 years it will help make the roof last, More important is keeping leaves and moss off, I made a pump to oil its a very easy job but if you put your feet on the fresh oil off you go so one must be carefull, The felt should not be showing under each row of shakes or here its put on wrong a very common mistake , In other words looking down you should not see the felt
Good point to make about the location of the felt. T%here is so much mis-information and misunderstanding surrounding cedar shakles and shingles....!Here is a graphic showing the right placement.http://www.cedarbureau.org/installation/roof_manual/images/p10-fig13d.gif
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Perfect
BS Andy. <<
Hey watch yer language or I'll bust yer lip for ya...lol.. and who the hell said using felt strips was wrong pal? Go re-read what I wrote.
I said that cedar should be on skip sheathing and should also have water and ice shield under the first few feet which you failed to mention Mr. Roofer. What within that do you find wrong Mr. Perfect?
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
There is plenty of bull in your reply there Andy."If its got "strips" of felt under each course I'm guessing they're (hopefully) on skip sheathing "There is nothing to connect one with the other in any way. skip sheathing is skip sheathing and is good for shakes but not necessary. the TP strips are absolutely needed for hand splits on a roof if you want to keep water out, but it is just as needed over plywood decks as it is on skip sheathing, so one does not even begin to hint at the other."If it was installed right on ply with no cedar breather or anything to lift the shingles a bit the shingles days are numbered."There is no reason for using cedar breather under shakes. That is for cedar shingles whih is why you used it, but the same does not apply universally to shakes. You refer to this as shingles, but he clearly described hand split shakes."I probably installed about five million square up there....lol."again, what you installed were shingles and not shakes, so your attempt to verify your advice with the great number of them you have laid is not a valid credential since you did not lay shakes on your roof and the methods are diferent."Oh yeh...you sure theres rolled roofing under it or is what you're seeing Water and Ice Shield which would be installed under the first three feet just above the gutters? I'm guessing thats what it is."Sure I&W is good, but it would not show visibly at all. This ccomment simpoly shows what you don't know about laying shakes and the method of interweavingthe 30# tarpaper.lack of knowledge on handsplit shakes is nothing to e embarassed about. Lot of people get shakes and shingles confused, which is why I ask folks so often for clarification when they mention one or the other, because installation methods are so different.
But the BS reply is when you come on as knowing so much after your five million comment when your statements make it clear you don't have a clue regarding shakes.Call'm like I see'mBTW,I actaully have probably laid five million of them
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
what you installed were shingles and not shakes,
I could have sworn he had shakes on his roof as well as the sidewalls. Somebody will come along and correct one of us, eventually.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I've never met a man that was owed as much as he thought he was.
I could have sworn he had shakes on his roof as well as the sidewalls. Somebody will come along and correct one of us, eventually. <<No, I had cedar perfections on my roof with a 5" exposure and my walls I used a 24" royal shake.I think Piffen thinks he's the only one on the planet that knows the differance. Arrogant lil' cus he is.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"I think Piffen thinks he's the only one on the planet that knows the differance."So why in the world do you jump into a thread about shakes with your own exxperiene on your own roof with shingles?
The one does not apply to the other. You don't seem to realize that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Simply because I wanted to tell him about the water and ice shield and that IMO I felt letting the cedar breath is helpful on any cedar roof...or wall for that matter. Plenty of people even use different products on cedar walls to allow it to breath more to get a longer life out of it. Some people think thats way overkill.
and for anyone else reading it in other parts of the country doing cedar roofs...thinking about using skip sheathing is an imnportant consideration.
Like I said...I'd always use skip sheathing for myself..unless it was in a seriously windy location where I'd worry the roof might lift...and in that case I'd probably not use a cedar roof anyway but thats just me.When I answer a post I don't think just one person is reading it....theres more variables in different locations that might help other people as well as the original poster.
Geezuz
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Man, you are so good when you do that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My new tags gonna read
"you can take the kid out of the street, but you can't take the street out of the kid"! avi yama dass aka andy : )~
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
His sidewalls are shakes. I checked the pictures of his house before getting into this
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No, I had cedar perfections on my roof with a 5" exposure and my walls I used a 24" royal shake.
Don't guess I've seen that particular combo 'round here. Here, it's shakes on the roof/shakes on the walls. Shingles on the roof/shingles on the walls.
I stand corrected and believe I will exit stage right on this discusion since I've already got a pissin match going with sancho.
When are you leaving for the left caost?
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I've never met a man that was owed as much as he thought he was.
I will exit stage right on this discusion since I've already got a pissin match going with sancho.
Where? I like these when I'm not involved!
Doug
I've installed plenty of SHAKES too and I referred to my roof because that's the last one I did and on "any cedar" roof job I always use Cedar Breather because I personally feel that's the best way to install them...either that or again...over skip sheathing .
Maybe if its in an area where the weather has intense winds I'd do it over "only" a plywood deck rather than skip sheathing but I'd still use Cedar Breather and nail everything down good.Might be my personal opinion that it helps the cedar last longer but so be it..and I haven't seen anywhere where it says it will hurt the job.
To me..it allows the cedar to breath IMHO makes it last longer.
I also would NEVER do a cedar roof no matter it shingle or shake with out water or ice shield. I think that any one that does without it is cheaping out. And again...I never said not to use TP....I indicated what I consider to be the best application to give any cedar the longest life possible.
I do happen to know the difference between a shake and a shingle..you're not the only one on the planet that knows.
I've done scores and scores of every imaginable cedar application in the past 35 years I've been in business with NEVER a problem.
And your BS remark just shows your arrogance..I've seen you do it to others as well such as Sphere if I recall so I'm not surprised how you speak to people.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"I do happen to know the difference between a shake and a shingle..you're not the only one on the planet that knows.
I've done scores and scores of every imaginable cedar application in the past 35 years I've been in business with NEVER a problem.
And your BS remark just shows your arrogance..I've seen you do it to others as well such as Sphere if I recall so I'm not surprised how you speak to people.
"Hey, you're the one who couldsn't seem to tell the difference with the way you replied to the firsst post and who is obviously unfamiliar with the interweave method for handsplits Andy. No need to be all tempermental. When I am wrong, go ahead and call me on it. Then you'll feel better.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the link regarding installation. This roof is indeed sheeted with ply, but the shakes are installed precisely as illustrated. I would imagine that the bulk of shake roofs in this area are handled the same way. There is an amazing amount of cedar roofing around here, both residential and commercial. And regarding Andy's concern about ice guard, this IS northwest of Chicago, so I would assume it is always used no matter what type of roofing is going down. If this existing roof truly is 7 or 8 years old now, then that means that the original only lasted 12 or 13 years, as the house was built in '87. Given that, are you sure it shouldn't receive a coating? There are mature hardwoods around the house, but no evergreens, and nothing overhanging, so there really isn't any moss developing. I guess I had heard a number of years ago that oiling shakes will help keep them from curling up, and I did have a client back home whose shake roof was pathetically curled as it neared the end of its service life.
Theoreticly it can hurt as much as it can help to coat it.
A coating on the surface will retard drying so the wood will stay wet longer after a period of rain. I can honestly say that after working on hundreds of shake roofs, I have never seen any coating used. I suspect it is something sold by con artists and has no real value at all. I can definitely say that I have seen a couple places where painting cedar shingles on siding has cause early deterioration due to trapping waterI can see the possibility htat it could help keep them from curling a little bit but handsplits are pretty curly to begin with and i have never seen them get worse.I was not making any arguement against using I&W shield at all. Where I was critial of his coments is that he thought the black paper you could see might have been I&W with no clue that it was the standard interweave and then claiming to be so experienced at this. Anybody who has ever done shakes reognizes the weave just from the way you desribed it so well.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Please catch my reply to Piffin. It veered into my reply to you, but I had a few other questions for you. When you oil a roof, how much prep do you go through? Is some sort of cleaning necessary? I of course have visions here of some moron coming to coat this roof and first blasting away at it with a pressure washer. Obviously a cedar roof is a huge investment, so I'd like to help this couple get the most life out of this roof possible. Thanks.
I am not in your part of the country only can say what works here in the pacific NW, Im not a con man or at least i dont think so LOL, I relize theres different areas in the country, Here there is no need for Ice and Water shield, By you yes, We clean the roof by hand remove the moss by hand, Then use a garden hose, NO pressure washer, There were some guys running around with pressure washers destroying roofs, Sure they looked new but they dug in right through, I use CHEVRON shingle oil maybe you can check it out by you, If a roof is maybe 10 years old i tell the people dont bother anymore if there had been moss or debrie on the roof, Oil will not stop curling thats mostly the shake and or the nailing, I knew a old guy built his house in the 40s oiled it every 4 years with used motor oil the roof still looks perfect, But its steep and no trees nearby, Most of the roofs we put on were heavy or handsplits so extra care would pay off, This is where they get the cedar bolts from, Pretty hard to get good shakes anymore we would throw out most of what they use now as its second growth
I fully admit that the PNW is a totally unique regon for roofing. Everything about itis different there and it is the one region of the country I haven't lived and worked, so I'll take your word for it out there.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks to you and bobbys for all the input, and to you too, Andy. I appreciate all the input from a number of perspectives. The good thing is, I know it isn't coming from the "experts at H#$@ Dep#&" so it's advice I can value.
If i went to roof by you i would need a few lessons first concerning snow and ice and how it could cause leaks