Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Apr 15, 2004 01:23am | #1

   as long as it has set up enough and no one will damage the edges..pour in the early morn. and pull em off late afternoon..

   but whats his hurry? finishing the sides?

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1. 
   stevent | Apr 15, 2004 02:10am | #2

   Thanx for the input. We poured a 22x 36 over the rear neighbors fence . 19 yds. with the help of a belt truck. When I signed for the con. They did not add fiber. I am stoked. We put 2 control joints in a 12 x 36 5" w/16x16 turn down. and two intersecting grade beams. The dispatcher said "I forgot" I feel like making the dig it out but the framers are starting in 2 days. Part of me sez go for it. The other part sez bring your mini x and repour.

1. 
   Sphere | Apr 15, 2004 02:47am | #3

   uh..they fergot the fiber..got that. BUT did you skip the re-mesh thinkin you were getting fibre?..Alot of Conc. places say skip the re-mesh if ya get the fiber..I do not listen to that BS...If you got no wire an no fiber..you WILL have cracks..control joints or not..

   Man, That sucks...I hope ya got mesh..

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1. 
   stevent | Apr 15, 2004 02:52am | #5

   NADA on the mesh. This is my home shop and I feel like telling the concrete company to dig it out but I doubt that. I do have poly under.

   I have pured many slabs and this happens on my own project. Do i have any recouse ?

1. 
   brownbagg | Apr 15, 2004 02:57am | #6

   it be ok.

2. 
   Sphere | Apr 15, 2004 02:58am | #7

   cross yer fingers..hope the subsoil and gravel is settled well..diamond saw some more controls ..or the doubtful dig it up..deal with it and learn to double check, at least get a refund on the 'crete..and labor. It was thier fault right? I'd bitch good an loud and offer them the chance to do right..

   19 yards aint cheap..both trucks had no fiber is unbelievable..

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3. 
   Piffin | Apr 15, 2004 04:02am | #8

   Some of those guys aren't driving with all the spokes in their wheels!

   On our last slab pour, we had two trucks, ordered with retarder because of the long ferry ride and using a pumper. second truckfull was setting up nice. First truck ful wasn't ready to trowel for years - I mean hours, you know what I mean.

   Turns out the driver for the frist truck said Ooops, they wanted retarder and he added it just before getting to the job. Seceond truck added retarder at the batch plant when he was supposed to, left half an hour later, and delivered beautiful stuff.

   The crew was there until midnight though 

    

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2. 
   iasm | Apr 15, 2004 09:11am | #14

   As a cement contractor for 35 years I never use fiber for slabs anyway.I use either mesh or bar to reinforce and it is not for shrinkage cracks but for pour sub-surface conditions.The crack you may get will be from shrinkage during the curing process.Normal concrete will shrink a little under a 1/16 inch in ten feet.If there was to much water placed in the mix some water will not have chemically bonded to the cement and it will try to leave surface.If you can cover the slab and force the water to stay their while the underside of the slab cures you will reduce the cracks substantily.I pour slabs a few times a week and rarely get any cracks without fiber or even expansion cracks in slabs less then 35 ft.As far as forms I keep them on to keep the edges sealed again to slow the cure.I don't like any of the slab to see moving air for a few days.In the future if you increase your mix to a 6 sack it will allow you a little more water to ease workability.

   Rod

1. 
   ClayS | Apr 16, 2004 05:37pm | #15

   Why do you think so few people understand or know about the bennefit of slow cure? So much labor and cost on the front end to just let the quality evaporate away always blows my mind.

2. 
   bill_1010 | Apr 15, 2004 02:52am | #4

   It can be done.  However it all depends on the mud.  If the crew was walking over it with power trowels or even hand troweling it the mud has set up, and can be pulled to finish the edges.  Pulling the forms off too early with sticky mud could cause some damage to the sides in terms of visual appearance but little structual damage.  Areas in the shade can take longer to set up or if the temp is cold.  Most likely the concrete man wants to use the forms the next day.

3. 
   IMERC | Apr 15, 2004 04:10am | #9

   Next day to pull the forms is more gooder.

   No mesh. No fiber. Time to fall back and punt. Bettt get a hold of the CC plant and talk to management.

   The trucks w/o the fiber should have been sent back or mesh installed on the spot. Why did you decide to skip the mView Imageesh?

   This may become an AS.

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4. 
   JRuss | Apr 15, 2004 04:28am | #10

   Once the concrete bites (sets) you can pull the forms, however, no mesh or fiber, that's only a firm maybe. It's there now, so I'd give it a few days, 7 if possible, to give it a fighting chance.

   Never serious, but always right.
5. 
   brownbagg | Apr 15, 2004 05:55am | #11

   fiber is good, it really helps keeping the cracks together. Most of time mesh is on bottom during nothing so a slab with mesh on bottom and a slab without fiber is about equal.

   when I poured my slab one truck came without fiber, not much can be done about it. Plants not gotta jackhammer and replace, they rather lose your business. Well anywell its been a year and still no cracks, just cut the hell out of the slab and cut it deep. ten foot squares and at least a inch deep, so you can make it crack. also cover with plastic and keep wet for seven days. as far as pulling forms. I have pulled within two hours before, it just will be green so be careful about chipping the edge. But I like to wait 24 hours

1. 
   caseyr | Apr 15, 2004 06:17am | #12

   My concrete work was before the days of fiber, so my question is:  can you tell by looking at the concrete as it goes down the chute whether it has fiber in it or not (or by some simple test) or do you just have to trust the word of the driver as to whether the mud has fiber? 

6. 
   SamT | Apr 15, 2004 08:20am | #13

   Chuck,once the 'crete is set enough to finish, the side forms on a slab do nothing except protect the edges from hard bumps.

   About the lack of reinfocing of any kind.

   Dirt settling under the slab is more of a concern without reinforcment. Fiber wouldn't help here.

   Cure cracks or shrinkage cracks as they are better known are helped by fiber or properly used mesh.

   Structural or setlement are only helped by rebar.

   After the surface has a walkable cure, you can still prevent shrinkage cracks by cutting reliefs 8'OC.  Then wet the slab then seal the surface with visqueen a few feet larger and covering the edges with a layer of dirt or sod to seal it to the moist soil around the slab.

   Let the framers frame right over the visqueen giving the 'crete that much longer to cure.

   Concrete curing requires moisture!     Don't allow it to dry!

   Properly cured concrete is more crack resistant than poorly cured with fiber. A real proper cure takes 28 days under moist conditions. Keep it sealed and in repair as long as possible. At least 7 days, 70% cured.

   SamT

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