Replies

1. 
   DanH | Oct 03, 2014 06:31pm | #1

   Two basic problems with replacing only some of it:

   1. It's a PITA to pull  the bad boards without damaging the rest and then interleave (and fasten) the new boards in with the old.

   2. When more boards go bad and the entire side needs replacing you will again have trouble removing the bad stuff without damaging the new boards.

   Also, FC siding is usually thinner than the other stuff it's likely to replace, so it may not fit in as well as one might hope.

   Not to say that it's a dumb idea, but there are downsides.

1. 
   deadnuts | Oct 04, 2014 12:29am | #2

   not "basic" problems

   Those aren't "basic" problems. Those are problems that Dan sees that are specific to his own incompetentcy.

   BTW, the OP stated that it is the lower boards that are rotted. That's typical as they are usually on the receiving end of higher and prolonged moisture conditions. Re-installing fiber cement is relatively easy and a long lasting solution. The only board that will probalby not be able to be nailed according to manufacturer recommendation is the last tie-in course. Not a big deal. BTW, after replacing rot with FC, the chances of having to replace the entire side anytime soon are slim.

2. 
   Antstep | Oct 04, 2014 10:44am | #3

   Thanks for the responses.

   Thanks very much for all the replies. As mentioned, panels in need of replacement appear to be confined to the lower segments in the splash zone. I don't anticipate going any higher than about 3ft, but I'll deal with any surprises as I start tearing off panels. It may turn out that I have to replace all of the siding, but it doesn't look that way and I'd like to avoid having to do that if it's not necessary; hence the initial inquiry. Rotted parts as far as I can tell seem to be mostly around the exposed overlap of the upper panel and I'm assuming the top edge of the underlying, lower panel. 

   Agree that the last panel to tie in will require some variation on nailing, but I don't anticipate this being any different to making any other repair on siding: nailing the overhang of the lowest engineered siding panel through the top of the overlapped FC panel. FC panels seem to be a very close match with existing siding and after painting, should integrate to homeowner's satisfaction.

1. 
   DanH | Oct 04, 2014 12:49pm | #4

   Depending on how the current stuff is nailed, you might want to invest in a shingle thief.

1. 
   deadnuts | Oct 04, 2014 04:12pm | #5

   ...or not

   A simple wonder bar will suffice. Start at the highest course you want to remove. Work that one out carefully....and the rest is usually "gravy" using only a claw hammer as you work your way to the bottom.

2. 
   calvin | Oct 05, 2014 01:18am | #6

   Ant.

   be sure to study the manufactuer's install instructions closely.  Fiber cement is not everlasting if you don't follow the  clearance, nailing schedule, or joint details. Gap the butts and flash behind.

   just saw a beautiful job from a distance.  Closer and butts were gapped but not flashed. Many points of water entry.  Too hard to tell if they sealed the rake cuts b/4 they crammed the siding down onto the shingles.

   best of luck.

1. 
   deadnuts | Oct 05, 2014 09:45am | #7

   nothing is everlasting

   It always good advice to read manufacturer's installation guidelines. Manufacturer does not recommned cramming the rake cuts down onto the shingles whether their sealed, or not. This is something you can see from a distance...and  wouldn't appear as "beautiful" in the manufacturer's book.

1. 
   calvin | Oct 05, 2014 10:57am | #8

   dead nuts

   You were there?  You should have said hello.  You could have passed me your glasses.

1. 
   sapwood | Oct 05, 2014 12:34pm | #9

   There is a character in the Dilbert comic strip who's named Topper. He's the guy who always has to have the last word and the best story. Breaktime has always had its own Topper. The current version is particularly obnoxious. 

3. 
   [email protected] | Oct 05, 2014 02:00pm | #10

   Moisture Exposure

   Fiber Cement Siding can have serious issues when repetively exposed to moisture.  Be sure you understand the cause of failure of the existing siding, and are not just installing another future failure.

1. 
   deadnuts | Oct 05, 2014 03:27pm | #11

   like what?

   Jigs-n-fixtures wrote:

   Fiber Cement Siding can have serious issues when repetively exposed to moisture. 

   Most fiber cement siding applications are exposed to moisture repetitively (i.e. every time it rains, snows, sleets, or is foggy) without issue. Care to back up your statement with some relevant facts?

1. 
   [email protected] | Oct 05, 2014 04:32pm | #12

   The Manufacturers say so.

   Fiber Cement Siding handles weather as well, or better than, most other siding if properly installed.  The problem comes from things like daily sprinkling from the landscape sprinklers, which cause frequent and repeated wetting and drying back. Wetting concrete causes efflouresence.  The repeated wetting and drying back causes accelerated efflourescence, and destruction of the siding as the crystals grow in the cement matrix and blow it apart. FCS isn't made of high strength concretes, and is thus more susceptible to efflourescence, and the crystals tend to break the bond between the concrete and the fiber.   

   Another issue is continuous or long term saturation.  This is caused by snow against the siding, or bad rain screen design which channels water to the back of the siding.  Again this causes efflourescence, but at a slower rate. 

   My concern is that the current engineered siding has failed only in the bottom of the wall.  Typically this is caused by moisture issues.  If there are moisture issues, and they aren't identified and addressed the replacement siding will also fail in short order, regardless of the type of siding.   

1. 
   deadnuts | Oct 05, 2014 08:50pm | #13

   What manufacturer?

   What manufacturer are you referring to? A cited source would be nice.

   According to Certainteed, a major manufacturer of fiber cement materail (which also happens to be the manufacture of the FC on my house) says it is not an issue.

   http://www.certainteed.com/resources/AdditionalResourceFiles/FC_Facts_On_Efflorescence.pdf

   J&F, your concerns may be valid in the extreme but in all likelihood do not apply here. Here's why:

   1. I've never heard fo efflorence "blowing it [FC] apart". It may be a surface finish nuisance in some rare situations, but not one involving rapid degredation of structural composition. Your concern about sprinklers being an issue could be valid. However, if someone has a sprinkler watering the side of their house for prolonged and repeated periods, then IMO they are idiots and shouldn't own a home in the first place. Chances are if they are doing this, then they have bigger problems than rotted siding (i.e. rotted structural sheathing or even mold spores feeding on framing or drywall surfaces). Anyhow, if you have some documentation of FC being blown apart by efflorence, then I would love to see it. I am open to changing my mind on the issue with relevant evidence.

   2. Snow is usually not an issue because it is frozen water. It generally doesn't saturate exterior finishes until it is transforms back into a liquid state. By that time it's "piling up" phase is long gone.

   3. Your claim of saturation does not consider that most siding is film coated with latex or acrylic paint. This repels most bulk moisture in form of rain, sleet, snow, or fog. I don't see saturation that could possible result in salt crystal evaporating to the surface being an issue; particulary with film finishes. Again, even if it did, it  appears that it is not a structural one.

   4. Bad rain screen? Really? Most builders don't even know what a rain screen is. The chance of them being installed on any given residence of this vintage is even slimer. Home's are generally not clad to promote rain from the inside. Granted, there is a buregoning market for the application of rain screen details, but these are,IMO, the result of advancements in air barriers and moisture barrier type insulation like closed cell foam. These were not very prevalent 10 years ago.

   Lastly, I believe the OP cited engineered siding. Could this be masonite his client is having a problem with? If so, the problems with that material have nothing to do with FC. The issues with that material as exterior cladding are well documented and so systemic that it resulted in class action lawsuites. IMO, the boon in FC siding applications was a positive reaction to these lawsuites.

2. 
   DanH | Oct 05, 2014 09:52pm | #15

   Yeah, I've seen what snow can do to building materials, even when it's just natural drifting and not due to piling snow up against the strudture.  Especially on the north side, where the sun never dries it out, and made worse by good insulation, since less heat comes from the inside to dry things out and melt the snow away from the structure.

   (Of course, some people who don't live in Minnesota will not be able to process the concept of "snow" very well.)

1. 
   deadnuts | Oct 05, 2014 09:39pm | #14

   give it up

   Dan,

   YOur talk of the sun drying snow out....and less heat from a home drying exterior cladding out is just plain drivel. YOur out of your league. Snow is not the culprit of rot; liquid water, water vapor, and the presence of microrganisms that eat edible building materails are. Sir Shackleton's wooden hut built in in Antartica* stands are pristine as the day it was built over 100 years ago. And FC does not make a very appetizing snack.

   *where it snows, on average, every other day of the year.

4. 
   Antstep | Oct 06, 2014 12:57pm | #16

   Thanks

   Thankyou. A few more things to consider. Existing material is not Masonite. Looks more like an OSB composite from the little I could see. Snow is not an issue. We're south enough not to have that worry. Homeowners have kept the sprinkler system off it. If I had a guess, it just looks like it has been under the same abuse that siding on a regular house comes under and the material has not been up to sustained exterior exposure.

5. 
   Antstep | Oct 24, 2014 10:35am | #17

   Update

   Thanks again for comments. Just by way of an update, as the siding was removed, it became obvious that the original siding had decayed further up the wall than anticipated, so w're replacing it all for concrete siding.