Hi y’all, I’ve wandered over here from Knots to get advice on our deck project.
Hubby wants to use composite decking materials rather than cedar. Where do you recommend I go (on the internet) to get an overview of installation requirements, e.g., spacing of the supports (joists? — you can tell I’m not in my element here, LOL) and such.
Our old (old!) deck has the joists spaced waaaaay far apart, and I’m wondering if we’re not going to have to increase the number of joists. Also want to know if there are any other surprises that might radically increase the cost of the project.
Thanks in advance!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
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Replies
As I've stated here before, I personally am not a big fan of eon decking.
If however your wife falls in love with it and absolutely has to have it. then make sure You put 1/4" bead of silicone on top of every joist and let it dry over night.
If you do not, then you will get a noisy walking surface. Guaranteed.
16" o.c. is sufficient.
butt joints are ugly (wide). Avoid them if possible.
maybe add bridging between the 2 center joists. they will act as backing for your piece of decking that is to run perpindicular to all other decking.
The #### melts when you cut it, so let it cool 10 seconds then cut the burr off with your razor knife.
Good Luck. Especially with their "lifetime warrantee". Usually covers only materials.
However, on a more positive note, I cannot say enough good things about trex.
Very easy to work with. Use that with a white vinyl railing (vecadeck) and your hubby will be in heaven.
Have fun.....
JC, thanks for the info. (BTW, I am the wife, LOL). What is "eon" decking? Is that a brand name? I see you like Trex, which is what our local Lumbermen's carries. Did I use the wrong term with "composite decking"?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Glad to see a post from someone that has worked with both. I've heard just the opposite of whta you said. People i've talked with love the EON "absolutely no maintenance, light weight etc.". As far as Trex i've heard stories about things like "warping, its VERY heavy, it is part wood so it will eventually fail". What have your long term experiences with Trex been? Do you get alot of callbacks from either? I've yet to use either (I dont do alot of decks) but I have spec'd the EON before.
Yes, Eon is light, but it melts when it is cut with a carbide blade.
Maybe there is a better blade out there for it??
Trex is heavier but so what. You will have the decking down in 1-2 days.
Eon will move when walked on. It is very bothersome. And not just to me.
Everyone that was at my customers' party had asked ME about that.
I personally hate the sturr.
Long term, I heard mixed reviews about both.
Eon does require some washing with bleach and water.
Same with Trex.
They are called low maintenance, not maintenance-free.
Luv Trex, Hate Eon. In a nutshell.
Best of luck.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Eon the 100% plastic hollow backed product with a wood grain printed or otherwise applied to he surface?
Generally, I'm all about better building materials with greater longevity that need less maintenance, but I find that synthesis, generally don't have the rigidity of traditional building products. To use 100% synthetic product (or close to it) in a flooring application is somewhat counter intuitive, and I'd guess the applied wood look would have long term appearance problems - just a guess.
No, I have never installed Eon, but have installed several composite type decking and have had zero problems. Matt
Try this url http://www.barronslumber.com/parts_of_a_deck.htm
It has links to charts that you will find helpful as to spacing size of beams and size of footing and bolting.
As far as spacing the joist on center it will depend on the type of composite and what it calls for support
new treated wood needs either hot dipped galvanized or stainless steel nails bolts and bracket
As you are in Washington you may need to build for your seismic zone. Your local building code may require you to do something special so you need to check with building code office.
Be the way how close to mount St. Helens are you. according to the news it sound like it is causeing some concern
Edited 9/28/2004 6:00 pm ET by fredsmart
Hi Fred, thanks for the link, and good point about the earthquake-related code. I'll check into that.
I picked up a Trex "Product and Installation Guide" conveniently found at the local Lumbermen's store. The Span Chart is helpful, but one column refers to "2 x 6 HS24" and I haven't figured exactly what that is yet. At any rate, you can use 24" spacing with those, rather than the 16" or 20" used with 5/4 and 2x respectively.
Mt. Saint Helens: Oh, yeah, she's rumbling for sure! I'm just 9 miles west of Seattle, so not terribly far from St. Helens -- I think around 130 miles. Doesn't sound like a lava eruption is likely, but they just put some new instruments up there yesterday, and they're going back today. Haven't heard what the latest gas readings were -- that's one of the main ways they figure out whether this is all steam or involves magma also. Of course, steam eruptions can toss big boulders all over the place, so it's no picnic!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
The specific brand of composite decking you select will have it's own set of instructions. So, first you need to select what product you want to use. A summary of criteria might be the look of the product, and if the necessary profiles are available to do what you intend - probably you will need more than just deck boards.
I'd recommend against installing composite decking on old floor joists. Why install 40 yr deck boards on 10 yr joists? Not sure if that was your intention, but generally joist spacing is 16" O.C, except if you want to run the boards diagonally, in which case, joist spacing is 12" O.C.
We just had a pretty good thread on composite decking a few weeks ago where one of the FHB writers was asking for information about composites. Here it is: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=47528.1
You said >> Also want to know if there are any other surprises that might radically increase the cost of the project. << The cost of a few extra joists is miniscule compared to the ~$5 a sq ft for the decking, then special fasteners, and the composite railings are expensive too. Bottom line is that a composite deck with railings, fascia boards, etc starts at maybe at $23 a sq ft installed, and can get up into the thirties.
Edited 9/28/2004 6:17 pm ET by DIRISHINME
Hi Matt, thanks for the input. When I wrote my original question, I didn't even realize that you use wood for the joists -- that's how new the whole thing was to me. Rest assured, we won't use the old joists. They are "weathered" to say the least. The whole deck will be coming out.
I'll use the $23-$30 range you presented to get an idea of what the total cost might be.
I have a Bosch 12" miter saw -- what blade do you suggest for cutting this type of material?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Remember the $23 - $30 was the cost/sq ft INSTALLED, including composite railings.
Re the blade for cutting composites, for a 12" saw, a ~32 tooth blade is good. You don't want to use fine toothed blades (lots of teeth) because heat can build up and kinda melt the composite material. On a circular saw, just a regular framing blade works fine. Matt
I like Correct-Dek better than Trex. I get either for about $3.50/sqft coverage but the correct deck is denser, stronger, and niver to look at with four emnbedded colours available and smooth one side or wood grained on the other.
How far apart is way far apart???? I don't jhave that reading on my tape measure. Must be the wrong brand. or maybe my tape is male and yorus is female.
;)
Anyway, the reason I ask is that IPE` can go 24" OC easy, if you are keeping the old framing and it is in decent shape. in some places, IPE` is about the same coverage price as the composites, won't rot, and looks a hundred percent better. Take a bit more labour to install though.
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OK, piffin, ya caught me. My tape isn't male or female, it's just in the garage! LOL! I was being lazy.
The oldy-moldy joists are about 30" apart. Definitely going to be replaced -- alllllll of the deck will be replaced. The Correct-Dek sounds like a good option, will have to see if anyone in this area carries it.
Hadn't thought about IPE, only about cedar. In considering IPE, is there a stain/treatment that you recommend? Or do you just let it weather?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi again, Piffin. I've been doing a little reading on Ipe and am very excited about that possibility. There's a company in Seattle that has quite a bit of info on their web site about it, and it looks great. Thanks for the heads-up!!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
That's great. It makes for a beautiful deck surface.
Penofin s good oil to use on it. They have an exotyic woods formulaa too. Ipe won't rot but feezing rain and UV don't help its appearance, so oiling it adds to the beauty and protects against ice damaging the fissures.
another decent choice is Port Orford cedar for a more rugged look but here are some Ipe` shots
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Hey, Piffin, thanks for posting the pics. Sorry it took me so long to get back over here..... Got a couple questions.
I went into Seattle today to get a close-up view of the stuff, get prices and ask some questions. My first stop was the Environmental Home Center, which it turns out burned down in August. Guess I missed that one in the newspaper. Very sad.
So, I went to CrossCut Hardwoods. They have a nice selection and appear to have competitive pricing. It looks like using the 4" boards will make the deck significantly less expensive than using 6"-wide boards. That being the case, what would you recommend for joist spacing with 1x4" boards?? I'm trying to work up an estimate for hubby, including the joists, etc.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
spacing
That depends on the size of the deck overall and the depth of the joists, and the snow load/ live load design requirements of the local permitting agency/ building inspector.
IOW, The 1x4 can handle up to a 24"OC span for this location(Coatal Maine), but can feel slightly weepy in some spots. I like to limit it to 19.2"OC ( black diamonds on the tape measurte) which is a repeat that saves a joist every eight feet vs 16" OC.
So, it can depend - It might be a comparison between 2x8@16" OC or 2x10@ 19.2"OC. If the joist only span ten feet, the 2x8 is fine but if you get up to 12' or so, you want the 2x10...
lotta variables....
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If the joist only span ten feet, the 2x8 is fine but if you get up to 12' or so, you want the 2x10...
Just a minor addendum to your post... The span can be adjusted with the use of a beam underneath the framing if she wanted to use 2 x 8 for a 12' stretch. Placed at about 8' from the rim at the house, she could get by without stepping up to 2 x 10. But you already knew that...
Like I said, a multitude of design variables, buit good point to bring up.
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Hi piffin, thanks. Well, it looks like I've talked hubby into building with the Ipe -- he really likes it. Some details: Our deck is narrow and long. Only 8 feet from the house to the railing. Rarely any kind of a snow load.
I think we'll save enough using 1x4's over 1x6's to make it easy to buy a few extra joists.
Our current deck is made from 2x6's (cedar) and they run lengthwise (parallel to the house front) for the 30+feet. Would it make any sense to turn the boards and have a zillion 8-foot boards running perpendicular to the house?? Sorry if this sounds stupid, but I've never done a deck before. Last time I did anything like this, I built a very large wood bin and covered it with bevelled siding. Looked great except the siding was upside-down! ROFL. Don't want to make a similar mistake with the deck.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
If you change the direction of the decking boards, and thereby, the direction of the joists, you will likely have to add to the # of support posts and dig some new footers too. This is the reason that in modern times, decking boards are normally run parallel to the house - to save money on understructure.Matt
Just to re-emphasize previous comments - check the manufacturer's specifications. Some composites require 12" joist spacing, instead of the more common 16". Many composites are not structural elements; in other words, they bend and break much more easily than wood, and therefore need good support.
If you choose a composite, look into using decking screws specifically made for composites. This isn't a requirement, more for aesthetic reasons.
Presumably your new joists will be pressure treated. Make sure that all fasteners/brackets that you use are rated for the new PT chemicals. Do a search here on "ACQ".
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Tim, thanks for the tip on the chemical-resistant fasteners. I'll look through the archives and get myself familiarized. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)