OK, our library wants a couple of laptop computers, one for the directors use, one for operating a projector for various presentations – – director found this deal:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=696143&sku=M975-3008
a $600 IBM T22 notebook that looks very attractive, until you notice that the operating system is win98 – – so…get the comp, wipe the system, load XP, and go?… can’t be that simple, right? or everyone would do it…
so someone tell me about it, please…
I solicit suggestions as to what/where is the best deal in laptops –
thanks
“there’s enough for everyone”
Edited 6/30/2004 4:07 pm ET by David Doud
Replies
David
The specs seem a little slow and low for XP but it really depends on what the pc's are going to be used for.
Which applications are going to be used?
How many applications and documents will be typically open concurrently.
Regards, Mike
Mike
It's O.k. to think out of the box, Just don't walk off of the plank!
Mike,
First gotta know. . .
Why Xp? Operating systems don't wear out, they're pure digital.
What is the director going to use it for? Word processing? Spreadsheets (accounting)? Check Email on the road? PDA? Power Point Presentions?
Speed goes WAAAAY down for every upgrade in Os's. I run Win 95 on a 200Mhz, PentiumII, 64Megs ram, call that a baseline. My GF has an 800Mhz w/Win98 & 128 Megs Ram that is a little faster, except online, I'm faster. Then she has a 1.3Ghz w/ WinXT, also w/ 128 Megs Ram, that is slightly slower all around. All three machines have Office 97 and dialup web.
The machine you mentioned can be easily and cheaply ($50-$80 at Staples 2 days ago) to 256 Megs af ram, which would really help if you go to XP. As is, it will run all the above programs from Office 95 to Office XP Pro. Heck, my machine will too.
It is a good buy, but I would leave Win98 on it, myself and if I was the director, I would thrash around on the floor, kicking, screaming, and crying till I got one of these. I'm serious, that little pencil eraser tracking device button in the keyboard is worse than worthless
SamT
Why Xp? Operating systems don't wear out, they're pure digital.
maybe not wear out, but they do become obsolete... 98 is not stable (OK, windoze is not stable) and doesn't interface with a lot of modern 'stuff' - - I personally upgraded from 98 to XP six months ago, and it is a real, considerable improvement - used to restart every half hour, now runs maybe a couple of days...
What is the director going to use it for? Word processing? Spreadsheets (accounting)? Check Email on the road? PDA? Power Point Presentions?
no/little accounting - - the library books are separate from the directors job, and are manual - (a whole nuther story - software for library books costs about the amount of our annual budget (we are small), electronic books/manual books both must be kept for three years, then the state tells you whether you can continue electronic - BS) - - yes to the rest of the applications...
agree on the mouse - -
thanks
"there's enough for everyone"
"Operating systems don't wear out,"
SamT,
Sure they do, They're called "patches",...um "Window's Updates."
Jon
Which applications are going to be used?
a fine question...the one thing I know for certain is that we want to play DVD's for projection - - there is a community tradition of 'movie night' - everyone brings their lawn chairs downtown, and a movie is projected against the community building - - last year we moved up to digital with borrowed equipment, this year between gifts and budget, we can procure our own equipment, as long as we stay reasonable -
How many applications and documents will be typically open concurrently.
I'm guessing that demands will be modest in this respect - - we have several desktop units for public use, and I don't think the laptop would see daily use by the public, the director would use it for her personal needs, and occasionally it would be called on for media.
I don't want to spend money on a cheap dog...
"there's enough for everyone"
Edited 6/30/2004 4:09 pm ET by David Doud
"the one thing I know for certain is that we want to play DVD's for projection "
I've seen DVD players for $50. maybe just get one of those for movie nite, have more $ for laptopbobl Volo, non valeo
I've seen DVD players for $50. maybe just get one of those for movie nite
now that's an interesting thought...do you know if you can plug a 'standard' DVD player into one of those 'computer projectors'? - - I was under the un-thought-out assumption that you had to have a computer to run one...
to ALL: - thanks, your info is about what was guessing - basically, ya get what ya pay for, and if slow and limited is good enough, $600 will get a laptop - - I like the Dell idea - - we'll talk about it at the board meeting next week..."there's enough for everyone"
it probably depends on the projecter
it's been awhile since i've seen a projector but i seem to remember more than one input type.
bobl Volo, non valeo
And the player. I think that different ones have different outputs.
For the labtop IBM has direct sales of Used, Refurb'd, and surpluse systems.
And they have several sales outlets.
outlets
Look on the right and you will see Certified Used, Authorized Auctions, and limited Time offers.
I second the motion to go with Dell.com!
All in favor post your ayes!
______________________________________________________________
Pros:
Cons:
Tiger is a con......discounted prices on old refurbished hardware running old unsupported software with customer support hotlines that never answer.
Go with Tiger and you may end up like one of those situations you find in remodeling--"What the heck was the idiot thinking when they did _________?"
No, I am not a Dell salesperson. Bought a few PCs over the years and done some research.....
mmm Anything I put my mind to, I could do..... given time, money, etc....
David
We have a couple of Dell optiplex's in an office environment that are PIII's, 500mhz, 384 mb ram and a 10gb hdd. The O.S. is w2k sp4. with IE 6. Office 2003 is installed, word is used and access is used. Norton antivirus is also running.Web based e-mail is used. Typically word is open, the database is open, I.E might be open and one other app is open. This morning I asked the users about performance and stabilty and they said it worked fine for them. But then they really arn't pushing the systems hard.
I would not try the above with only 128 mb in the IBM, and the cost to upgrade the ram might put you only $200-300 away from a new pc with a better warrenty and a fresher battery.
Last year in december I picked up a HP Athelon 2.x GHz, 256k (might be 512k), 40g hdd, cdrw/dvd player and 15" display with XP at best buys for < $900 after rebates, it's original price before rebates was about $1,300. You might wait for a month or so when the back to school sales begin.
Gotta run
Mike
It's O.k. to think out of the box, Just don't walk off of the plank!
Edited 6/30/2004 3:57 pm ET by Mike S
Ratings for the Tiger machines are not very good - followup service is worse
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Ratings for the Tiger machines are not very good
where/what are these ratings?
followup service is worse
and that doesn't surprise me, this computer mechanic thing is a PITA - friday an unsupervised 4yo managed to delete part of the operating system on a desktop - still haven't got is salvaged, couldn't get it to reload XP, finally got it limping along on Millineum - too much time/effort trying to keep things de-glitched - - local service is nothing to brag about either..."there's enough for everyone"
Ratings - I was seriously considering the Tigres a couple years ago primarily because of prices, until i read some reviews in computer magazines. Don't remember which ones.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good chance it hasn't got the power (processor) to run XP nor the RAM..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! What a Ride!
check out the outlet at Dell.com
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I'm with Piff and Jeff.
I have read a lot of stuff in computer mags about Tiger and their customer service is lousy. Prices are good though. Sort of. The laptop you show is an IBM from about 3-4 years ago. The price is $600. It doesn't have enough memory and it has Win98SE. Both are drawbacks. Sure, more memory (which you install) can be had for $50-$100. Win XP Pro is $200. Tiger's products are geared for people who have the time and ability to repair their own stuff.
Check out Dell's website. You can get a basic laptop that is 10 times the machine you pictured for $1059. We're talking a couple hundred bucks difference for a machine that isn't outdated from day one.
This is a no brainer.
carpenter in transition
you saw my Toshiba Satellite pro when I was up...got it at Circut City..I ferget exactly how much it was mebbe 1400.00..? Absolutly no problems..daily use since last October.
I'd buy another in a heartbeat.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
If there is no one technical enough to debug software issues or fix/replace the hardware when it fails, then the most important thing you need to look at is technical support. If this is going to be someone's primary machine and they conduct their business with it, the fast turnaround support is even more critical.
For support, I would go with one of the larger retailers such as Dell, Gateway, or Compaq/HP. Hands down Dell is probably the best service for the cost for non-corporation support contracts. As a project manager with stiff deadlines, downtime is not acceptable. I have a 4 hour turnaround support contract with Compaq/HP but the cost is astronomical.
As for upgrading from Win 98 to XP, not it's not hard at all. I've upgraded from Windows 3.1 all the way up to XP and Windows 2003. Windows 2000, XP, and 2003 are exceptionally easy to install new or upgrade to. This was on my home built desktops. XP requires almost no effort at all to install/upgrade. What you do have to watch out for is that when you buy brand name machines, they may have special software needs. I have a "generic" home built machine so therefore I don't encounter such issues.
I would go with either Windows 2000 or Windows XP Professional. You can get XP machines from Dell for a reasonable cost and that will actually run XP quite well.
Personally, I don't have a Dell, but use Compaq's/HP's/ and Dell's at work. I recommend Dell's to anyone (friends and family) that wants a machine but is not technical enough to handle software/hardware issues. Like I said, support should be your main concern in this case. Your end user in this case is not doing anything that even the lowest cost Dell can't handle.
As far as plugging the dvd player into the projector, most of the latest projectors have rca and s-video jacks. You can use this to hook the projector directly to the dvd player. The only concern is where the audio will come from. I don't thing projectors have audio capabilities. If there is a "stereo" of some sort nearby, you can hook the dvd player's audio to the stereo.
David,
The laptop you are looking at is a "paperweight" For public use go with an XP-Pro operating system. The extra $100 bucks will get much better security and also better ability for networking. XP operating systems should have at least 250 megs of ram. XP alone needs +/- 150 megs for optimal function. Now throw in an office suite and you need close to 250 megs. For storing pictures and slide presentations go for at least a 40 gig hard drive. These should be minimal specs to start with. Personally I would like between 500 to 650 megs of high speed ram.
Check out the prices for refurbished machines at Dell or Toshiba, my favorite computer places.
Nice thing what you are trying to do for your library,
Virginbuild.
I was suspicions of XP when it first came out, but now I would have no other OS. I've had very good luck with it.
On the other hand, be cautious upgrading to XP. XP is pretty picky with the hardware it runs on, and there is a ton of older hardware out there that will not run XP. Microsoft has an area on their website that lets you check what hardware will run on XP.
I can't comment on the Tiger systems. I would be suspect of any system that does not come with XP installed. XP is not new, and for a computer to be sold with Win98 on it tells me it's old design.
I buy stuff from Tiger, as a company they seem to provide good service.
If you are careful (read, know what you are doing) Dell can offer some good buys.
A 1.0 GHz IBM T-22 was reviewed in PC Magazine for Aug 01, 2001.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,12805,00.asp
I have Windows 98SE on one of my computers and Windows 2000 Pro on another. The Windows 98SE has been as stable as the Win 2000. Adding printers and other peripherals is a bit more of a hassle because the Win 98SE doesn't have a lot of the drivers built in that the 2000 Pro does. Win 98SE was much more stable than was Win98. I wouldn't hesitate to run Win 98SE provided the software I wanted ran on it and the peripherals I needed had good drivers available. I also wouldn't hesitate to try running Win XP on the machine, although the extra cost of buying a copy of XP might buy a better machine with XP installed if applied to the cost of the machine.
Consumers Reports not too long ago had a review recently of reliability and customer service satisfaction of the various laptop vendors. If I remember correctly, IBM, Toshiba, and Apple came out on top. Dell was not too far behind but had somewhat poorer reliability but was among the best in customer service.
PC Magazine last did a customer survey on reliability and service last July.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1185057,00.asp
The top choice for laptops was IBM, Toshiba, and Apple. For desktops it was ABS, Apple, Dell, and Sony:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1187343,00.asp
I personally like the IBM laptops, in large part because of their keyboards. However, I did once own a Toshiba and was happy with it. Have heard a number of complaints from owners of other brands of laptops, but don't remember any specifics.
Edited 6/30/2004 2:01 pm ET by CaseyR
Much as it hurts to say it (being a Linux partisan and an old hardware hacker), spend the money for a newer, faster model that is rated to run XP. XP is much more stable than W/98, but, especially for laptops, it's important to have a box that's "certified" for the specific OS, to avoid annoying annoyances. Also, buying a new copy of XP is going to set you back a coupla hundred anyway.
Try to find out if anyone on the library board is or knows some possible donor who is an IBM/HP/DEC/whatever employee. These companies have employee sales programs that will often let the employee donate new equipment at very reasonable prices (ie, $600 for much newer equipment). Or there may be a company program for donating them directly.