I’ll call my electrical contractor’s geek (actually, a real whiz) in the AM with this string of questions, but I thought some of you here might have some input.
I know, I know, I could go and do web searches for all these answers, but it is fun to ask here and see what happens. Some of you are great techies.
Here is what is wanted. A single wallmount (17 or 19 or 20 incher) LCD, all wired up from behind with lines for both TV and the internet. Wireless mouse and wireless keyboard store conveniently in a drawer below the counter when not in use. A small wireless handheld (clicker) controls TV functions, just like any other TV. Somehow, there is a nearby, but hidden, CPU for the PC.
Now I know that Apple makes an iMac in which the CPU is in the screen box, and that is a possibility. But we may want to go PC and not Mac.
What do we need in equipment, and how do we plan and do the wiring, for this kitchen installation?
Replies
I think a lot of the flat panel TVs on the market these days, if not most of them, can be used as a computer display. I have one here (I'm watching TV on it right now), and I can just hit a button on the remote to flip it back and forth from cable TV input to PC input.
What about if you want to watch TV and use the computer at the same time? You may need two flat panels. :-) Another thing to consider is that you can get TV tuner cards you can stick inside the computer. They're cheap, and available from Comp USA or any of the computer stores. Then, the TV comes up on the computer screen in another window, and you can either flip back and forth from working on the computer to the TV screen, or you can have the TV screen in a small window up in the corner of the screen while you're working on the computer.
My understanding is that new Windows Vista will deal directly with many of those issues. It'll be out early 07
I think life would be easier getting an lcd tv (tuner in the tv, rather than a tuner in the computer). Aside from macs (you might have trouble with the tv tuner issue in a mac, but I don't know for sure), companies like dell make very compact cpus. Not in the screen itself, but small enough to tuck behind the screen, about 3" deep. Or if you find someone who builds computers, they should be able to offer you a variety of case sizes and shapes for your computer.
But what about watching a dvd, or bringing data to the PC? Maybe a small form factor computer somewhere accessible would make more sense, and then conduit up to the lcd stand.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Gene,
You or your geek might want to visit the Apple website http://tinyurl.com/yzycqu or your local Apple store if you have one in the area. The iMac you mention comes with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, so it will boot up with either the native OS X operating system or, if you have it installed, Windows XP. (No mention of Vista as yet.)
If you want to switch between systems but don't want to shut down and reboot, you can install Parallels Desktop for Mac http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/ and run both systems simultaneously.
For the TV, eyetv http://tinyurl.com/yejsk6 can be used with the iMac to not only watch TV and control it remotely, but also record it. You can watch it full screen or just as a window on the desktop.
And the wireless keyboard and mouse are available as options from Apple, so the only wiring you'd need would be power, internet connection, and TV. If it's digital cable/satellite TV, you'd also need the usual set-top box, but the eyetv can control that, so it could be located out of sight.
I don't have an iMac, but I do have a Mac and I can watch TV on it, so I'm pretty sure an iMac can do what you want to do - but I haven't added up how much it would set you back to do it; I'll leave that for you and your geek to work out.
Dan
I think the new Intel iMac is the way to go. It runs Windows
very well. It also accepts a wireless Blue-Tooth keybord
and mouse.
http://global.shuttle.com/Product/System/Sys_default.asp
These products are stylish to, and you don't have to worry about teaching him a new operating system.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Apple OS X is eaiser to use than windows. If you know windows, OS X will seem like a cake walk!
For the "screen" it will likely be easier to "shop" small 15-17" flat panels, as many offer either/or tv/cpu connections.
The previous advice on software answers for using the computer as a tuner for tv stand--mac/wintel argument is, and remains unansweable (you get to pick which way to go).
With the mini-towers available out there, you might could just have the cpu behind the flat screen, if you just frame an open space in an upper cabinet. You could use a flat-screen wall mount to hang a flatscreen on the outside of the cabinet door, too. Do, though, remember to allow for air circulation for the cpu. Also, remember to allow space for a comprehensive surge protection, unless you've taken the step of doing whole-house protection. Which also reminds to run whatever cabling you'll need too.
Now, the drawer with the wireless keyboard and/or mouse is good. Even better is to set a removable shelf into the drawer box to lift the keyboard to a better height to work "over" the drawer front (this also allows a space to keep destructions underneath, too). Installing keyboard, tip-down, hardware on the drawer front is not bad, either--if that hardware doesn't make that one front stand out by being "odd."
Alternately, some of the "cookbook racks" that fold up under the upper cabinets will nicely keep a keyboard handy, yet out of the way (or, sometimes, out of small hands' reach).
Now, if a cabinet end is handy, that space under the midshelf, in the back of a base cabinet, can be nice place to rig up a slide-out shelf for the cpu. That lets you use the "front of the base normally, yet gives access to the cpu (you may need/want some child safety hardware to keep that end panel access closed).
That flat panel can be spiffy in the kitchen for those cooks who have their recipes organized (or just need one off food network or the like). Just have to remember to clean the fingerprints off.
The coolest thing to have is the one thing that does not seem to be readily available--a "tablet" monitor. That would give a person touch-screen utility while simplifying the installation no end. Touch screens are out there, but they are not what a person might call affordable.
I had the same idea for family van also. The easiest solution is a Laptop. Toshiba has the Qosmio G35-AV650 which has a TV tuner, 17" screen, plays and records DVD's, wireless internet, reads your digital camera memory card and all sorts of outputs for big screen or sound system http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pdet.to?seg=HHO&poid=326517&coid=-30600
If $2,500 is too much, a $800 laptop with an external tuner(<$100) will do the same thing.
Just wrap the keyboard in Saran Wrap or add another wireless USB keyboard.
Bear in mind that you may end up taking this out in a few months. We tried, and found that the water & food mess didn't mix with electronics and paper. Now we have an open floorplan, where you can easily watch the family room TV from the kitchen.
-- J.S.
You could use one of those waterproof keyboards that roll up or lay flat, combined with a laser mouse.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
There's also that new laser projection keyboard. But we found that we didn't use it that much, and we could do without it.
-- J.S.
one of those waterproof keyboards that roll up or lay flat
Yeah, but the WP models start at $165, the roll-ups are $200 & $300, depending on the source and use (the POL-resistant, all vinyl, individual membrane "key" models are $300-350--but cheaper than one $25 k/b per week in the auto shop).
That's where the midrange wireless k/b & mouse, in its own drawer is a slick deal.
It was pointed out to me as I was researching something else, that they do have a hybrid laptop/tablet PC out there, which might actually be the thing for this application. Whether or not it will accept a video feed in a different question. After New Year's this year, the undercounter, tip-down flat screen tv's already available will likely be just under $200. Combining the tablet and a tip-down u/c might be a good combo (especially, say, if a person needed to run that Jaques Pepin DVD to make the fancy french supper, rather than just keep track of the tv show in the other room). Depends on the expected use, really.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"Yeah, but the WP models start at $165, the roll-ups are $200 & $300, depending on the source and use (the POL-resistant, all vinyl, individual membrane "key" models are $300-350--but cheaper than one $25 k/b per week in the auto shop)."
There are flexible keyboards that sell for around $25. Here's one example.
http://www.bytewizecomputers.com/products/7/37/276/10024
Here is another for slightly more:
The New & Improved Super Kool Keyboard (full size)
<!--- Hello? --->
View Image
Our Price: $39.95
The Super Kool Keyboard is a Virtually Indestructible Keyboard, a silicon-based flexible computer keyboard, features a unique combination of durability and soft, comfortable feel. The washable, “roll-able” keyboard has been called “the best thing to happen to typing since the backspace key.” Click here to see the 85 key Compact version.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Wow, cool--had not seen those, I'll need to remember that.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
$200 19" wide screen monitor standard wall mount
$600 a modest small form factor computer with a good video card
$150 for HD and SD tuners
$75 for remote and PVR software
15amp circuit (this is not a small appliance outlet)
antenna wire from whereever.
You can just buy a combo tuner/monitor like the Samsung SyncMaster 710mp which has both pc and cable inputs. I am currently using the 15 inch model right now. you can switch from tv to pc or have picture-in-picture with both. it even has other video inputs. wiring is just monitor cable, coax cable for tv, power. simple to set up.
Hope this helps. Rich.
If this is basically a TV, but also want be able to get a recipe off the internet or to run quicken or similar stuff then I think that is probably the simpliest way to go.But if there is computer acess security/home automation system and what to have split screen showing who is at the front door while seting the tempature in the guest bedroom and have selected music on a central CD/satelite music system then you would want a computer based system with TV tunner. And probably also a touch screen, all integrated with the right software.
Direct tv latest billing has a tv with built in receiver and 20" screen for 499$ but I don't think it is computer compatible.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Gene,
If you haven't already decided, I'd recommend the laptop with the built in tv tuner option.
Yes, you can have the clicker to control the tv this way. And I think it offers you some additional benefits.
You can take the computer over to the dining table, or island, or breakfast bar, etc. to look at a recipe while sitting down. Yes if you have a wireless keyboard you can accomplish some of that, but it can be hard to see the screen if it's in a fixed position 8 feet away.
You can fold it up and put it in a kitchen drawer, or somewhere else in the house, when it's not in use.
You don't have to custom fabricate a bracket, niche, shelf or anything else to hold or conceal this.
If you are still sold on a 'remain in place' version, I seem to recall a kitchen friendly computer in FHB over the last 3 years. Couldn't find it on the index search, though.
Here is a pic of a kitchen (not one I did) in which someone was apparently wanting what I have in mind.
View Image
There's the LCD monitor over in the corner, and it will probably play TV or do internet. My idea is to have the same look, and stow the wireless mouse, pad, and keyboard in the drawer under the counter. For TV function, a small wireless click controller is in the drawer as well.
What would you do differently?
Is there a mounting where the TV can fold up under the upper cabinet?
That LCD monitor in the pic looks as if it is a freestanding unit. As I said, it was not my job, I just pulled the pic from a website.
Right. My post was less of a question and more of a response to your question about what would/should you do differently.
The picture you posted was nice, but I think it would have been better if the tv had been mounted under the cabinet so it could be flipped up and out of the way when not in use, or the owner needs the counter space. That's my 2 cents!
Something I've been thinking about:
These newer widescreen modles are great for watching movies - but they are even better when rotated 90 degrees for reading text. If you have a wide monitor mounted, see if the software on the PC/MAC will allow rotation of the image.
The benifit of this is that you no longer have to scroll up and down with your flour/raw meat/sauce covered hands to see the whole recipe, or read the whole news column. This requires using a mounting bracket that allows rotation of course, and clearence to rotate the screen.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Sent over here from CooksTalk to check this out.
My opinion? It would be okay for a TV, but not for a PC. That close to the stove and sink, it's going get quickly covered in grease, dust and potential splashes.
As someone that works with LCDs (we put them in planes), I can tell you that they're not a good candidate for kitchens unless specifically designed for them. The LCD glass is not easy to clean, especially grease.
The flip-down ones are better than free-standing, because they're somewhat shielded.
You may have addressed this upthread, but how are you planning to use the computer? Checking things online while cooking? Looking up recipes? Frequently? Infrequently?
For the keyboard and mouse inside the drawer, would you use them much that way or would they end up on the counter? How often would you be using the computer there? Using one standing up for any length of time is a bit hard on the back.
My recommendation is to have a computer close to the kitchen but outside the work zone so that it has a better chance for survival.
I'm typing on a computer just outside, but connected to my kitchen, in a little cubby that protects it from the worst of the mess but keeps me close enough to check recipes and CooksTalk without going upstairs to the main PC. Works out quite well for me, but we designed the kitchen around the way WE live. Might not work for someone else.
Leigh
Cooking is messy. Deal with it or stay out of the kitchen.
I would put in a small for factor case and some mentioned shuttle I've built a few systems with them and had goor results , Put in a TV tuner card (My fav of choice is ATI all in wonders they have a RF remote that will work through cupard doors and has a TV tuner built in and can work as a PVR and then a blu tooth keyboard and mouse will solve your wierless keyboard and mouse.