I ask in the tarvern because I want true answer not sugar coated.
I got a job in a small town about 100 miles away, no one knows me. I am working for the owner through an artitect. The contractor is from out of town, nice guy, but have no idea what he doing.
Concrete company local, concrete finisher local.
Finisher does not have enough people, keep adding water. Driver ask finisher if he wants more water, ” Yes put it in” I have control of mix, I told driver no more water. He looks at me and adds the water.
Ok take your load back, No and keeps pouring.
Contactor acts like , what you want me to do, if he walks I,m screwed
What do I do, I getting chewed by my boss and the art but I haave lost control
What do I do.
.
Replies
It always sucks to have responsibility but not authority. Happens with lots of jobs. Either negotiate with the boss to get more authority or less responsibility, or seek a job that better balances them. In the absence of that, have everyone sign a waiver of liability whenever they override you like this--in essence, cover your ####.
It fails
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Document the events in a report, tell it like it is and hand it in and keep a copy.
Not having the authority, nor the support to do your assigned task, puts you between a hard place and a rock.
Gabe
Write it up as it happened. Make copies for arch., owner, your boss, yourself.
Recommend payment be withheld in the amount of possible damages.
Have a sit down with your boss about how this gets handled next time.
There is a mud truck driver in a small town about 100 miles from me who is still probably having nightmares about the maniac who climbed in his cab threatening him with a shovel if he didn't quit pouring his sh** after being told not to ...;-)
Who hired the finisher, etc. ?
Hard call if they were hired by the owner.
My ethics would require me to relate the entire episode to the architect and owner at a minimum. I would assume the archy would know the deleterious effects of the water, but would provide some technical info to the owner also.
Only times I work could have been in that position, if somebody tried to add water after they were told not to they literally would have been escorted off site at gunpoint and investigated by FBI as possible saboteurs. Concrete pours were on Minuteman silos. If the mix out of the truck had a higher slump than specified (every load was measured by an on-site engineer) it was sent back. No Bozos allowed.
One story I heard (3rd hand, so veracity uncertain) about the build on Bill Gates mansion was that there was one 96 yard pour that the archy didn't like, entire thing was jackhammered out the next day. No idea who ate the cost of that.
'Bagg, in what capacity were you hired?
Were you an inspector on this job?
Did you do a slump test or take cylinders?
What I'm wondering was why you were there and what you were being paid to do.
A few things come to mind;
As for being chewed out by the contractor and the architect --
First off, as already said, you cannot be charged with a level of responsibility without being granted a commensurate level of authority. That's just the way the world works and one of the first things you are taught as an NCO. And if it's good enough for us dumb-@$$es, it's good enough for you. How's that for no sugar coating? <G>
So as far as anything coming back on you, if you did not have the authority to enforce a decision, then you have no further responsibility, period.
I would point that out to them straight to their faces, preferably in the same room at the same time.
Once I have a sense of why you were there I will have some other ideas. But in the meanwhile, I'm assuming you have a copy of the load ticket and that the load ticket shows the design specs and the specs as batched. That might come in handy.
I'd take the advice already given to you, and start keeping careful notes and issue a responsibly worded report. The report is a factual accounting of your observations on site, and the notes are a factual daily accounting of details so there is no question about the accuracy of your memory.
Like how much water in how much concrete and how many spins at roughly what temp for a start, and definitely who asked for the water and who said what to whom and when.
Give us some more details.
Edited 1/21/2007 10:06 pm by Catskinner
Were you an inspector on this job? yesDid you do a slump test or take cylinders? yesWhat I'm wondering was why you were there and what you were being paid to do. Control all quality controlbeing chewed out by the my boss and the architect -the authority to enforce a decision, I did.But nobody paid me no attention, what ever I said went over their head.I was called a cracker by the concrete driver. Finisher claimed it was his job.Contractor paid for concrete, I was being paid by U.S. government, can we say Federal job..
federal job... and the contractor didn't follow the inspector's instructions ?
hah..... if the test cylinders fail the work should come out
i'd write it up and hand off to your boss and the architectMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
There yua go - cylinders and report
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Mike is right, 'bagg -- you don't have a care in the world.You did your job. You provided technically sound advice, you observed the procedure, and you took the samples you were supposed to.You did what you were paid to do, and nothing further can be expected. Anyone who knows anything about concrete knows better than to act the way those guys did, so they knew better, and if they didn't, they certainly should have. Every redi-mix company I have ever dealt with in my life has a written policy on adding water.Your authority to enforce a decision was compromised not just by the driver or the finisher (who are now culpable for their behavior because you instructed them specifically to the contrary) but also by the GC and the architect for not making your authority clear.When I have field supers working for me on jobs where I will not be present I make it clear to everyone on the jobsite that whoever I leave in charge speaks with my authority. I will back their decision no matter what, right or wrong, and unlawful conduct notwithstanding, I will deal seriously with insubordinate behavior.That's a short speech and oddly enough I have never had a problem. <G>You did not receive that courtesy, and you did do everything that you could legally do. So just for s##ts and giggles, what did the slump test tell you?
it was that cold morning, temp was mid 40's spec calls for 3-4 inch slumps, they was pouring 7. I was trying to keep it low so concrete could generate some heat. job from hell. finisher only had 4 people, he needed 15 to 20, so he pour wet. He did not have the extra help because he didnt want to pay for them. typical small town house finisher trying to do commerical work. And since concrete company was buddies with finisher, anything he said..
Edited 1/21/2007 11:22 pm by brownbagg
Yep, Bob's right. CYA, and do it by the book.You did your job.You did nothing wrong.Now document it to the point where you can prove it, turn your report in to whoever you are contractually obligated to, and don't give it another thought.
I was being paid by U.S. government, can we say Federal job.
Serious stuff, the company with the Federal contract can/will lose their ability to get anymore contracts for a few years or more if this is not corrected.
Has happened often enough it gets a LOT of attention from the feds; in company I work for, if I didn't report it my #### would be out the door, maybe worse. Document your slump test report etc. as others have advised.
Sounds like a jackhammer it out job and the finisher and concrete supplier eat the cost.
People have gone to prison on some federal projects for willfull acts like you describe.
<<People have gone to prison on some federal projects for willfull acts like you describe.>>Junk, that is for sure, and the reason why I've encouraged 'Bagg to not be shy and step right up to the line. You have given good advice.I worked on a Federal job on which the GC willfully did something very wrong for profit and got caught. The NIS and the civilian security folks did not BS around with him.When this stuff happens you want to have done the right thing, be able to prove it, and do so immediately because when the ##### flies it goes everywhere.
brown... we need an update..
wassup ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I dont go back to that job for couple days. maybe first of next week..
Edited 1/22/2007 6:45 pm by brownbagg
so do you have test cylinders... and logs of the slump tests ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
yes, everytime somebody goes over the spec, we have to take a sample. cylinders, slump, air, temp, pull tickets, whole nine yards..
just to re-emphasizedocument it ASAP and report it ASAP and keep a copy of everything and make pictures where necessary.as apparently the last person with authority and an inspector, YOU will get the blame, including taking too long to report it.if your report isn't finished send an email or note of the problem telling about the follow up report.do it in writing, not just a phone call.phone call, follow up note about phone call, report.. keep copy of everything.(CAF, retired, 30+ years of AF acquisition and contract management)
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
CYA real good, you're gunna get the blame. do it quick
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
"Contractor paid for concrete, I was being paid by U.S. government, can we say Federal job."sen a copy of your report to the Procuring Contracting Officer in the Government.that will get everyones attention
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Just wanted to add my voice to those who mentioned getting a copy of the truck's ticket, and the batch plants mix , as well as the originial mix design.
Make sure you get copies of all those to the higher ups, and keep your own copies as well.