Would like feedback on what the best, easiest to use concrete resurfacer product is out there. I have a room with a rough concrete floor that I need to make smooth, like glass.
I have experience using concrete leveler to achieve a level and smooth floor for tiling. I imagine that it is a similar skill set.
Is the “magic trowel” the tool to use for this sort of project?
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Replies
The magic trowel is nice, but to get a glass smooth surface, I've had to top with a 100% solids epoxy, multiple coats.
Okay, have done some research into this and this is what I have found.
The client wants a stained concrete floor, highly polished look. Currently the floor is "broom finished", which means it has a rough texture.
The goal is to get is glass smooth.
Originally I was going to use a concrete resurfacing product, that bonds to the existing concrete. The problem with this method is that you get a "plasticy" look, which is not what you want. The only person who kindly responded to my thread, recommended using an epoxy overlay-which is not what you want to use, as in addition to looking plasticy, the stain would not be absorbed.
The concrete contractor I use said he could pour a 3" slab on top of this and give it a glass smooth finish and acid stain for $2600.
I found another concrete guy who would grind it and stain it for $1000.
We went for the grinding system. In talking to the contractor, it is a one day job from start to finish. He has several grinders, from 12" to 30" inches wide, so he is set up to work in residences, as opposed to warehouses.
The thing with grinding is that you can grind off the top layer of "slurry" and expose the aggregate or stone, and stone will not hold the stain, so the finish will not look quite right. The trick is to only grind down so much. If your floor is out of level, the grinder will level it, but then you end up exposing more aggregate.
Once they do the initial grinding, they apply a dye with an acetone base, which soaks into the concrete. They grind that all the way up to 1500 grit, and then apply a type of finish/sealer, which they then buff out to a high gloss finish. All this happens in one day. We saw samples, which look very similar to the gold standard of a smooth troweled concrete floor that has been acid stained and finish with a high gloss sealer.
One of my complaints about FHB, which is a great magazine, is that it does not publish many articles on state of the art trade processes. I should not have to find out about stuff like this through blind luck. FHB also focuses on traditional architecture, with a heavy empasis on working with wood. It needs to go the modern design route with a heavier empasis on sustainability- it is 2009, not 1909.
Please post back here after you have this finished. I've seen something similar done a couple of times. Surface came out smoothly, but the stain didn't, or the exposed aggregate was far from even looking.And, while I like FHB, there's no way I take what I read there with much authority... more like anecdotal info with exceptionally nice pictures. You still have to do your own homework. http://www.tvwsolar.com
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If things loosen up
I don't understand how that can happen all in one day. Do they wet grind or dry grind? If wet, that would interfere with the staining, wouldn't it? And doesn't the stain have to throughly dry before any finish is applied? And what kind of finish can be buffed out the same day it's applied. Nitrocellulose lacquer can't even match that and it dries very fast. Don't overlook the fact that if there was ever a puddle of dog pee or spilled motor oil on the floor, you are going to see it after the staining.
good questions and observations, I don't know. I will post pictures of the finished product in a couple of weeks.
Edited 10/4/2009 11:07 pm ET by yojimbo2
We did a library where they ground the slab. They did not stain (because of exposed agregate) but just clear sealed. Very nice look. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Sorry, I've been out of town.
What will do what your client desires can be done as closely as possible with this:
http://www.miracote.com/index.php?href=productdetail&id=7
I have used it with the magic trowel, but wish to clarify, this does NOT provide an absolute smooth finish by itself. Anymore than ANY form of concrete finish other that a steel trowel on regular concrete. Nor should it.
First, this material will produce some trowel marks that are highly desirable in stained concrete finishes. Such "imperfections" will appear as similarly applied drywall applications. If one wishes a smooth drywall finish, some sanding is necessary. This this no different.
Second, any form of stained concrete occurs in the very thin top layer of concrete. All concrete will wear. This wear of a stained and unprotected concrete will cause the stained layer to sooner rather than later come off, causing a very unhappy customer and a lousy appearance.
Therefore, any stained concrete needs a protective seal coat. Preferrably two. That seal coat is what will give your customer the glass smooth finish he desires. Sealers come in thin and thick varieties. The thin type will not likely last long on a heavily used floor such as my garage where I had mine done. The thick type will flow like a heavy poly and fill in the tiny bubble holes and trowel mark variations.
And then, there is a wide variety of such sealers. Water based, solvent, etc. The type I used and prefer is a two part ureathane. Now for this, I suggest you contact the company referenced above directly and ask for their product specialist. This two part (when I used it, its name was APU) product doesn't appear on the website any more. They may have either replaced it with a better version or discontinued it altogether. Eeither way, they'll have a replacement product. This APU is also a sealer for epoxy floors. This company's Epoxy coverings (which are awesome and come in every conceivable color imaginable) have a 6,000 psi rating. The APU comes in at 10,00 psi.
Discuss your situation with them. Their knowledge will knock your socks off.
Another thing, power troweling is not recommended for concrete to be stained later.
Thanks for the info. Just out of interest do you have any links to any videos of this product being applied, finished, etc. I checked youtube, and only found one promotional video.
instead of grinding, you sand with a floor buffer, just enough to knock the broom marks down, then stain, you need all the cement for the stain. the smoothness comes from the sealer, et epoxy, like the last poster remarked.
I just reread you post, and after seeing the results of the grinding acetone stain, I wish I had paid more attention to what you said. The ridges raised by the broom are extremely soft, and easily removed.
They just finished with the grind and acetone dye stain on the concrete floor. It took them forever to get to it, it sounds like they are very busy. This was done for $1000.
Edited 10/30/2009 8:50 pm ET by yojimbo2
So, is that not what the owner was hoping for? looks like a nice floor to me, not an acid stained look, but pretty nice still. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
The owner is very happy. For me it has too much aggregate, quite a few rough spots, and the color is kind of off. For a $1000 it works.I was reading Dwell the other day, and they had a picture of a kitchen where they put down hardibacker, and then finished it somehow and it looked like a smooth concrete floor. They even left a gap between the sheets, it looked totally boss. The only info with the picture was info directing you to the jameshardie.com site, great just what I need.
Tell me how the hell you pulled this off.
Actually, no. I paid up for the trip to California and $250 for the training fee. Just to see how the uneducated immigrants do it for $6 an hour.
They have regional sales people in place that live only to see you do it right and use thier product. And accordingly, their salaries and commissions are built into the price of the product. But also, depending upon where one gets the material (such as White Cap), they have staff that has been trained in the applications.