After several long months of learning how to build a house with my father and his house construction on my own house has finally begun! They are digging the foundation footings as we speak! Thanks to everyone who has answered my many questions up to this point, I guarantee I will have more!
Replies
fun's a comin'
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
John wait a minute !
Wheres the pics? Dont over look those and now is past time but not too late. Post them as ya go here.
Tim
Don't worry I have a digital camera just for the occasion. I'll start with some pictures tonight or tomorrow and plan to take pictures throughout the process. If I can figure out how to post pics on here I'll post em up. I'm really excited, this will actually be the first house I've ever owned and to build it myself makes it even better. It'll be a 2400 sq/ft house with a detached garage. Its a fairly simple 1 story design. Being an amatuer I didn't want to get to far over my head. I kinda wish I would have tried doing the foundation myself, that back-ho looked fun! But I figured certain things I should leave to the pros. Wish me luck!
Will be watchin and waitin on pictures.I wish you well in your dream of building your own house.Remember if you get stuck on something you can always comeback here for answers.
Heres a picture of the footings dug out. Now we are waiting for the plumber to get in and get the under slab work done. Hopefully we will have cement by early next week and then I can start framing.
Edited 11/8/2005 5:31 pm ET by Johnny1985489
Johnny,
Where is this home?
Looks like Texas, and the foundation work looks similar to ones I described in Post / Foundation Types.
As you get further along looks like you need some trees. Down south? West and South side to block the sun. I planted some pin oaks 6' - 8' 5 years ago. They are now 12' - 16'.
Johnny
Fill out your profile so that we could know where your building this place. It also helps others when answering a question to have an idea what part of the country your in.
Just click on your name and fill it in.
Oh, and keep the pictures coming.
Doug
Ok I filled it out. I'm in S. NM and yes I need trees! I planted 14 a few months back, but they are only about 6-7' tall. We bought 14 acres and there was 1 tree on it when we bought it! Once the house is done and bring some in closer to the house. Too early to worry about landscaping tho. :)
For some reason several people think I am a liar. Either I am lying about building a house of lying about the cost. Is $75K to build a house really that far fetched? Well this is what we spent on my fathers house, not including the cost of land.On the other thread it was late and when I said the prices were labor only I figured that piping and electrical cable was always part of the bids, maybe not. The electricians bid covered everything except light fixtures. The 4k included swiches, outlets, doorbell, bathroom exhaust fans. The plumbers bid (6k)covered all piping, just didnt cover toilets, sinks etc. The foundation was 15k for everything, including concrete. The cost for the ac unit was 4k, there was no extra labor there because we put it on the roof, we ran the ductwork, the electrician and plumber hooked it up as part of their bid. Personally I didn't understand why the plumber charged more than the electricians, the electricians put in many many more man hours than he did. We paid for the shingles but I think that was cheap, couple k maybe? we paid for drywall. All the wood really wasn't that much but I don't feel like asking my father to put together a pricelist of every dollar he spent. I am sure we spent normal prices for all lumber. For siding he used Hardiboard. The bathrooms and kitchen he went cheap on. Home depot sells DIY kitchen cabinets which are very affodable and easy to put together. I think he spent around 2k on those. He went cheap on light fixtures. Counter tops will be tile, he is working on that one now. Tile is cheap. The entire garage was drywalled, top to bottom as part of the bid to drywall the house. If you don't believe me fine, but why would I lie? As my house goes on I would be happy to let you know what I'm spending as I go. Also I would love to get a GC liscense but aren't those reserved for people who are in the field for many many years and difficult to obtain?I started this thread a couple weeks ago to document what I am about to go through. Feel free to follow along. I didn't mean to cause a big problem on that last thread its just that when we are building a house so cheap it boggled my mind why some people are paying hundreds of thousands to have a house built.
Heres a nearly completed picture of my fathers house. As others have already stated it may be a simple looking house but we are very proud of it, especially for the price.You all need to remember that our goal was not to have the best house in the neighborhood. Out goal was to buy a large amount of land, build 3 houses for the whole family and have little to no house payments. My father made just enough money off california real estate to pull this off. He could have just bought himself a beutiful house and retired, but he wanted to get all the grandkids together so he came up with this plan. Instead of being selfish his kids and grandkids are benefiting from the money he made in cali. As he states, he didn't work for it he just owned a house so he might as well share the wealth. I am pretty much doing most of the work on all 3 houses and my father is paying me for that. I'm making enough to pay for most of my house. By the time my house finishes I will be 30 with no house payment, or maybe a very small one if I go over budget. I'll work a part time job somewhere just to pay the utilities. That and only that was the reason for leaving california. We started this to live a nice life and let all the grandkids grow up together in a nice little town. This is where we are. Dads house is almost done, but hes living in it and mine has barely started. I'm sorry fellas I'm not making this up. We are living our dream out here and I apologize if that offends you in some way. If you shop around, on subs and on materials you can really get things done without taking out a large mortgage, thats all I'm saying.
Edited 12/9/2005 10:33 am ET by Johnny1985489
My foundation is costing me $15,637 + tax. This is all work and materials needed for the job. I am paying a little more than my father did as I am going with a different contractor. We had some problems with the other contractor not paying his concrete bill and putting a lien on my fathers house for a short time. His foundation was 15k after taxes, but the guy doing mine is suppose to be the best in town.I've already got the 10' studs and enough plywood to hopefully frame the house up completely. I don't know off the top of my head what that cost, I'll get those numbers later. The plumber is $6,xxx. I don't have that bid in front of me but it was maybe 6200, something like that. Again that will cover everything except for toilets, sinks, etc etc. I haven't written any other checks yet but I'll keep ya posted. My house is bigger than my fathers, 2400 sq ft. vs 1750 but I don't expect to pay much more than he did. But we'll see.
Edited 12/9/2005 10:36 am ET by Johnny1985489
Johnny
I was one of the guys that said you are full of shid!
My apology to you if that offended you.
You stated that your father is going cheap, nothing wrong with that. But you cant value the house as though its got some of the amenities of other homes valued at $250K
Your idea of building a house and having little or no payments is a smart plan. No reason to keep up with the Jones.
You aren't valuing your time at anything, how can you say that you built the house for X amount when you don't factor all the costs in. Just because you didn't pay yourself a salary doesn't mean that your labor was free. Take in to account the money that you would have been making sitting at the computer. And if you were to go out on your own and start GCing do you think you can get your father and any other family members to do the work for free, I'm guessing NO.
You come on a site where good GC's hang out and insult them, what did you expect to hear. I'm sure some of your words can be chalked up to being young and foolish, hell we've all been in your shoes!
What you and your family is doing is great, but all GC's are not making the kind of money that you think or suggest. I'm sure they wish they were but its just not true.
I think when you add up all the cost, plus your time and material and then have the real value of your places determined you'll see that you didn't build a $250,000 for $75,000. It just isn't happening.
Doug
I viewed the pic and the house looks nice.
1750 SF @ $75,000.00 build cost (with 2 car Garage)= $42.86 per SF LA
Your home 2400 SF @ $42.86 per SF = $102,864.00
You do need to put your methods together and write a book.
Send me the first copy.
Edited 12/9/2005 1:41 pm ET by txlandlord
Edited 12/9/2005 1:46 pm ET by txlandlord
Since you are willing to track and post your cost, will you do the same for your labor hours?
I have tracked those hours on a home I built for my inlaws, and as Mr. T says "I am a trained professional". Without counting travel time, I shaved 40K off the labor cost by doing that much work for them free. Add in the favors I called in when I needed more manpower and that number goes up.
Volunteering material cost and subcontract cost to most is useless to most of us. Tell us the total number of hours you spend on each step of your building. Both yours and your volunteer work force.
Dave
I'll see what I can do. When I can I may post up total expenses and approx man hours but I'm in this project for the fun of it so I don't know how much I'm gonna wanna spend time documenting everything. But I'll try.To all the GCs on the site I'll be a big man and apologize. You just gotta understand where I'm coming from. We have come in contact with many local professionals in the business who are totally against what we are doing. Even the damn inspector tried to stop us. So please understand I am basing my opionions of GCs on the ones I have met. So anyway, sorry for that.Heres a few pics from the inside of my pops house. The kitchen is only half done as we are still waiting for the center corner cabinet which we ordered from home depot over a month ago. And yes the one cabinet is higher than the rest. We plan to stagger the heights some, with the center peice being tallest with nice glass doors. Then put crown molding along the tops of the cabinets. My father is not much of an interior decorator but considering hes a 55 yr old bachelor I think hes doing a decent job.Enjoy. Theres a good chance my foundation goes in this week, wish me luck!
"To all the GCs on the site I'll be a big man and apologize."Thank you.Though I'd say we all still have a problem with your bookkeeping method and specification comparison method.The last house I built for myself was a 1750 sqft bungalow with a 2-car carport with a 1-car shop attached. I subcontracted everything and only pulled a couple of favors and my hard cost was $100 per sq ft. That is nothing for my time, insurance, overhead, profit, real estate costs, carrying costs, etc.I'm happy that you guys are going the simple route. We live an all too consuming country. But the pictures of your fathers house speak volumes. It's nice, but very, very simple and incomplete.Examples:1. It's a drywall box inside with no trim package at all.
2. What did you spend on cabinets AND installation. We average $20,000 to $30,000 installed on a similar size house.
3. Um, where's the front porch, gutters, shutters, driveway, landscaping, garage doors...
4. Is that kitchen a little dark at night with one two bulb bedroom light ten foot above? Also, some of your posts speak for themselves as well. I see you've already experienced the subcontractor problem. Second house, second foundation sub huh? And you see why most of us don't buy cabinets from the orange or blue box stores? Etc, etc, etc.I AM NOT bashing you for building a simple house for your father and/or you. More power to you!I am and always will fight to the death when anyone tries to compare apples to bananas. Microft Paint and Adobe Illustrator both are graphic programs but oh what a difference. Oh, wait a minute Paint comes free and you need to pay for Illustrator! See my point?No hard feelings...but it might be wise to soften your approach(like classifying all GC's as being crooks), open your eyes to what the GC business means as a BIG picture, everyday, all day and get some thicker skin.I gotta go now, I'm in a bunch of forums on Microsofts site right now trying to explain why DOS works just fine for me and anyone who buys Windows is stupid! Kidding...
Garage doors wont come in until after christmas. The room is plenty bright. The living room kitchen and dining room are essentially one large room with 14 light bulbs total. We plan on trimming the inside of the house, but its not something that needed to be done right away. Front porch is being added when my foundation goes in. $160 toward the final cost. Gutters?? I live in the desert. We don't need no stinkin gutters! The driveway will come later as well. We are just having gravel brought in since we are 300' off the main rd. Landscaping? C'mon grass and trees are cheap. How much do you want us to do in 6 months anyway? My father is happy living the way it is for now so we can work on getting the other 2 houses up and get all the families onto the property. Finishing touches can be done later on. For us the process is the fun part. You don't buy a classic car and restore it in a day and never touch it again. Its a work of art that never ends.
Its a work of art that never ends.
Oh boy, its a good thing contractors don't build houses like that! I can just see myself telling my wife "No paycheck again this month, dear, I'm creating a work of art that never ends!" Or how about telling a client "No, sorry, you can't move in again this month, in fact, probably not this year. But take comfort, your house is a work of art!"
Edited 12/9/2005 8:27 pm by Huck
When I built the house we are in now my DW said she would help... well, first it was too muddy, then it was too dusty, then there were bees in there, then it was too hot, then... well you get the picture... actually though she was a HUGE help - how? She said "we are not moving in there until it is 100% complete and I'm getting so-and-so over to check it over too."!!!!!!!! Well after roughly 7 months we moved into a complete house.
The other part of the story is that she sold the old house, and packed all our stuff because luckily I was too busy building the new place - bless her heart!
Matt, I will bet you a thousand dollars that when you home in she will tell everyone "WE built it ourself"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I remodeled the bathroom, rip teh tub out, replced it, tiled teh surround, tiled teh floor, wallpapered it, new fixtures, new sinks and toilets . . . "WE remodeled teh bathroom".
NOw, I finished the basement and I must admit my wife does say "my husband finished the basement". HMM? Is she telling me something?
Matt, sorry. . . . when you move into your home . . .
We moved in 5 years ago. And actually the DW never took credit for my 8 months of 16 hour days. In comversations, se did have to remind me once or twice that it was our house though, as opposed to my house... :-) So if anything, it was the opposite.
Matt, good for your wife. I was mostly kidding. It is pretty normal for couples to speak the way I mentioned. WE bought a new car. WE are going on vacation. WE are remodeling teh house. People say we are remodeling the house when they contract the whole deal out!
Just kind of a joke.
>> People say we are remodeling the house when they contract the whole deal out! << Do you mean that they get a GC or do you mean that they hire a bunch of subs?
Alright I have given you the benefit of doubt but now I will issue a judgement and a sincere good luck with your completion.
In my neck of the woods your home would be lucky to break 90,000$ when completed.
The 250,000$ range would be full brick exterior,Heavy trim package,tile and hardwood floors throughout,highend cabinets and granite or corian tops a large masterbath and a much more detailed architectual exterior, full landscape package and concrete driveway and other amenities.
Now don't take this analysis wrong I am not criticizing just summing up what I see from pictures.
But keep posting and keep a running cost and ask for some input and we will help you stretch your money while giving you some good feedback on where to put details for little money that will add a more upscale feel.
I can identify with you building your own house as I did the same 10 years ago and it got me into the construction business as a career.
ANDYSZ2
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
Here in NC coast they're selling slab houses like this for about $150,000. But they only have a one car garage. And they're on very small lots. Conservatively here's what you'd add to Johny's cost to make it market ready:Front Porch Floor & Posts - $750
Garage Doors & Openers - $1,500
Shutters - $250
Gutters - $600
Driveway - $1,500
Landscaping Package - $2,500
Flooring - $4,500
Countertops - $900
Trim Package - $3,500
Fireplace - $2,000
Lot Price - $25,000
Misc - $5,000
Total - $48,000
Cost To Date - $75,000
House Total - $123,000 plus all the sweat equity not figured!
Real Estate Agent - $9,000
Interest Expense - $5,000
That would leave $13,000 for 6 months of sweat equity, overhead, insurance, profit, etc. Crazy!Johny:
More power to you for building an inexpensive house for you, your father and brother. I wish you the best in your future of keeping things simple. I wish more of us were willing and able to do the same. But don't get into the GC work though unless you get much more mature in your opinions and get a lot more honest with your math.
Edited 12/10/2005 11:09 am ET by ncbuilder
ANDY,
90 grand? Whatever you say, but I would guess you live in the Appalashas (spelling?). 1750 sq ft with two car garge? As a fixer-upper 1750 sq ft is worth 90 grand in 99% of the country. But you much be in that 1% of the country. Have you considered moving or just don't have the $50 for gas for the Planpet's truck to haul the junk away.
Merry Christmas! I recently built a Two story 3600 Sq Ft home in Dartmouth Nova Scotia (includes garage & full walk out basement). I will try to include some pics. Granite countertops, 9 ft ceilings bonus room over garage, custom trim work etc, etc. We built it for $61.20 a Sq Ft. (Can dollars). My wife and I worked our guts out, painting over 11,500 Sq Ft of dry wall, installation of the trim/mill work, all flooring (porcelain and bamboo hardgrass) except for the carpet in the bedrooms. I built the decks front and back and did all of the non electrical wiring (Cat 5e x 2 and rg6; 24 drops of each), and last but not least dealing with the subs, City and whatever calamities come afoul of a build. They do not call it sweat equity for nothing. There are good GC's out there and the good ones are worth every penny. We may choose to do it ourselves but I am not dillusional enough to assume GC's should perform all of the above for free. To sum up I suppose anyone can build a tar paper shack for a dollar a Sq ft. Merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Evon
You you and you panic the rest can come with me.
Greetings losh,
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=24441.1
is an old thread here on Breaktime that includes a lot of data on posting pics and the Irfanview download.
Dialup patrons of the forum cannot download real large files or will take excessive time.
Two things are necessary to assist the dialups with your photos. Making sure that the set file association is set to jpgs if you are using the Irfanview system.
The other is to keep the KG picture size to preferably under 100kgs.
View Image
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Thanks for the input. I went back to the pictures and they barely fit on my 19 inch screen. I will try to up my tech savy (somewhere between nil and nothing) and shrink them down for the next time.
$61.20 a Sq Ft. (Can dollars).
Well what's that in real money!
The house looks nice. Well done!
You built the house for the amount you stated but your still not factoring in all the work that you did. Its not an accurate accounting of the cost to build the house, unless your time isn't worth anything.
I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do it, hell there are others here to do that, but you have to value your time at something.
If your spare time isn't worth anything then next time the boss asks you to work a little extra you should do it without any compensation, hell, it doesn't have any value so why not.
Don't get me wrong, I'd encourage anybody to reduce the money they are taking out of the bank to build if they can do some of the work themselves, I'm not worried that there wont be enough work for me. Its just that you have to be more realistic about actual cost vs actual money changed hands, that's all. You even mentioned that it was hard work, I'd assume you wouldn't go do this stuff just for the fun of it for a perfect stranger.
Doug
Your right Doug, I did not factor in a cost factor but my point to Johnny was exactly that. We worked like dogs on this build and would/could never expect a GC to come in at that price. Factoring in our labour would bring that closer to $85 - $95 (scooby bucks). Thanks for your reply.
Evon
You say : "You built the house for the amount you stated but your still not factoring in all the work that you did. Its not an accurate accounting of the cost to build the house, unless your time isn't worth anything." And a number of other people say the same thing.
Well, do you mow your lawn? Why would you do that? Don't you value your free time? Do you do your own dishes after dinner? Why would you do that? Don't you value your free time?
The point is people who build there own homes do it for lots of reasons. The chanllenge, teh pride, to do a better job than many contractors, and I beleive to save money!
In materials alone you can build a darn nice house with tile and stone adn wood floors etc. for $50 to $70 bucks/foot . When done, it is valued at $115 to $150. A guy can indeed make $100,000 or more for that labor you keep harping about. Pretty good wage for one years work. And then again it is about pride, the challenge adn the quality.
I actually beleive that the nicer the home you build yourself the more money you can make. Tile is so easy to lay. Hire someone to do it, it cost $15 / ft. Do it yourself you can do it for between $3 and $5 depending on the tile. A nice margin of $10/ft. If you put vinyl in the savings of doing yourself is much smaller. Now, of course this is not true of the granite counter top as the cost in that case is in the material.
Shaken
Yea I mow my yard, but why do you think comparing apples to oranges some how makes sense!
I understand about the pride thing. They don't let me in all those 10 million dollar homes because I lack pride in my work.
to do a better job than many contractors
You have the same attitude that so many people who don't have a clue think!
Maybe the reason that you think "many" of the contractors do sub-par work is because you don't want to pay for the professional, therefor because you hired a hack and got hack work you think "many" contractors do less then professional quality work.
A guy can indeed make $100,000 or more for that labor you keep harping about.
Now theres a pretty broad statement! With that I guess that one could build a 1000 sq ft home in an undesirable neighborhood and still turn the 100g's huh?
I'm not even going to go into your paragraph on the tile because your so far from reality that you wouldn't see it if it bit ya!
Other then that you had some good points.......
Doug
"The point is people who build there own homes do it for lots of reasons. The chanllenge, teh pride, to do a better job than many contractors, and I beleive to save money!"Hey, it's great that you can save money. I would bet that most of the pro's on this board, even those who get into these types of discussions and argue with guys who DIY (myself included), are in favor of someone doing their own work. If they can spare the time and don't do a hack job or cheat subs & suppliers from deserved money I think it's great.The issue that we see a lot of time is that people who have done DIY stuff then draw the conclusions that all of us contractor's are rolling in piles of your money. In fact, that kind of comment is the reason this thread began.For the most part, that is simply not the case. When you take the "worth" of your home and subtract your costs, the assumption is that is what the GC would have made as profit. That is completely wrong and I think that's why many encourage the DIY crowd to realize that they are spending their time, and to not ascribe value to their time is inaccurate.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Merry Xmas to all! Merry xmas to me! Heres a pic of my foundation. Spent part of the day building one wall! It's not in the picture though.Enjoy! PS, my aunt is a broker for one of the largest companies in Sacramento CA and she says $100k per house is about right for GC's there. So I still stand behind my comments.Again, merry christmas everybody!
Johnny, Johnny, Johnny
when ya gonna learn!
Johny, Johny, Johny:So it went from $175,000 down to $100,000 now. And is she a broker for a construction company's sales team or for a real estate company? I've had real estate agenst make more in commission than I've made for overhead and profit.Do us all a favor. Build your house, enjoy the profits of your labor and keep your feet on the ground and out of your mouth.
I see that Johnny is back online with his own home....have not had time to read all the new post.
He is the DIY builder claiming that he (or a spec builder) can make and are making 233% profit on a home. He was outraged at our greed.
I encouraged him to document his procedures and write a book. If he can prove his methods work and 233% is avaliable to builders, he will make a fortune selling books. Tauton Press would probably publish and NAHB, with all of the ignorant Builders who are only making 8-30% is a great market.
Our competetion will increase as all of the DIYers out there read the book and become Builder / GCs.
Aside from that, he could partner with a local bulder and offer him 50%, netting him 183% profit.
Edited 12/26/2005 10:42 am ET by txlandlord
Some factors I have noticed in DIY home builders, they sometimes get reamed on pricing from subs and suppliers. They are providing 1 home to the subs and suppliers, builders are supplying several. And, where is the sub going to report and the supplier deliver when the DIY and the builder want him on the same day.
I also noticed and experienced the following: two DIY builders had homes started, one in the frame stage and the other had a slab poured when we did our site layout for a new home. We finished three months before one DIY (if you coud cal a tremendous punch list that was unattended - finished) and the other is still not finished a year later. The subs just dropped progress on much of his work.
One of the DIY sited several reamings by subs, and also asked me to walk the house pointing out problems. I considered helping him by taking a casual walk thorugh the house. I found so many unfinished details and irregular consturtion that I declined givng him my critique.
Ok Johnny,
First of all, the Median Price for a home in Sacramento California was over $400K in 2004. Know what median means? It's the price right in the dead center. Half the houses were more and half were less.
Look thru the Yahoo Realestate pages and you'll see a ton of stuff over $1 Million currently on the market in the Sacramento area.
NOw, here's the hard lesson. If a guy hangs himself out in the breeze for $1 Million dollars, what is a fair amount for him to earn? Should he get 10%? Is that fair? Is it a worthwhile return on his risk?
Your aunt is probably right, builders in her area just might be making $100K or 10% on a job. SO?
What's a nice house in your area going for these days? What's 10% of that? Ya see, thats what the builders around you are probably making. Not $100K per job, but rather 10%. It aint the same.
On Friday I had lunch with soem old friends and we did talk about business a little. Seems that lots of people think that GC's are all thieves. I wonder how they would feel if they had to stare $25K worth of annual insurance premiums in the face, or maybe $35K a month worth of payroll, or maybe $2K a month worth of work truck payments. All the while staying up late at night worrying about the guys who work for you and keeping them busy cause they got kids to feed too.
Building your own home is somethign to be proud of. But, when the guys here tell you that you don't know what your talking about money wise, believe them.
If it was that easy, construction companies wouldn't be in the top fivve most likely to fail businesses and every GC would own a Porsche 911 and a Hummer H2.
Good post Robert, I like the comment by DanT "mental midget". The last post by johnny highlights that comment. The description of your foundation is nothing out of the ordinary if done correctly. The saw kerf is a relief for your slab as it shrinks at an unequal rate. More than likely it will crack and the hope is it cracks in the kerf.
I'm moving to Sacramento $100k per house "let's see one house in 6 months then six months off rolling in dough" Sounds real, doesn't it?
I am really not anti DIY at all. I was one for many years. There is a certain inefficiency involved and the skill level is not as high so some items will need to be done over.
Yes the DIY will be at a price disadvantage in some purchasing areas also but if you sat and watched tv all the time or spent 25-30 hours a week doing your own work and it only worked out to a $5 an hours savings it still is money ahead from watching tv.
My issue with Robert is he makes assumptions based on hersay not fact. And then wants to make an issue of it here all while preening for advice or asking for conformation of his issues. That is stupid. He seems to feel everyone on this board would lie to him so he would spend too much money when no one has anything to gain at all. But we all have ten toes so shooting yourself in the foot can take a while before it is all gone. Good luck Robert. DanT
Dan
Both your post were right on but I think you mean Johnny, not Robert!
And after all, Johnny is getting advice from other net sites so we aren't going to pull the wool over good ole Johnny, he's nobodies fool!
Doug
Ooops, Johnny. I have an uncle Robert the same way, must have crossed my thoughts. DanT
Well the first walls went up today. 2 22' walls and 2 30' walls. I'm not going to post pictures because I am leaving this site. I said that once before but this time for good. Yes I am taking my ball and going home. This site has been full of great information so thank you to all those that did answer questions along the way. To the rest of you snobs I won't say much other than this: Get used to the fact that some people can and will try new things on their own. I am sorry but your trade is not a complicated one. There are no skills involved in building a house it simply takes the balls to do it. And to Mr happy median comment. According to you 100k per house is reasonable in a place where the median price is 400k? So you're telling me its ok for a GC to build 4 houses and and make enough money to pay cash for his own? To the homeowners out there reading this forum: You're being ripped off.So with that I'm out. I cannot let this website ruin the great experience I'm about to have. Where I live the entire town is excited about what we are doing. To hell with the rest of ya.Peace and chicken grease.
"There are no skills involved in building a house"
'Bye - don't let the screen door hit you on the way out.
Say Hi to Bob Vila or wherever you're posting your nonsense.
Someplace where everyone thinks they're being ripped off you're king of the hill?
Joe H
PS: all software's a rip off too. Why pay some jerk like you when I can download it from the internet?
PPS: May your job be out sourced to India.
Then you can become a full time GC, making money so fast you won't have time to spend it all.
Edited 12/27/2005 4:43 pm by JoeH
I knew we would finally get to the Woohoo!! part of this thread's title. Mr. no skill, big balls Johny is leaving -----Woohoo!!I don't have to waste my time trying explain the concept of sunlight to that mushroom anymore. - Woohoo!!There's no one left to point how greed makes me stay in this business - Woohoo!!Woohoo!! See ya Johny!
"There are no skills involved in building a house it simply takes the balls to do it."
I knew those of us who do this full-time had more of SOMETHING than you, I just thought it was skills. I stand corrected.
Adios Muchacha!
Johnny
Man, you are a dufus!
See-ya, wouldnt wana-be-ya
Johnny says
Where I live the entire town is excited about what we are doing.
We would be excited too, if we did not know that a builder can not typically make 233% profit on the sale of a new home.
Yeah, I think their is a difference between feining excitement for a customer that keeps coming in talking about their project and being truly excited about something like a new business coming in bringing new jobs. DanT
You're being maligned behind your back:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=67515.17
No big surprise from WHO!jt8
"Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful." -- John R. Wooden
I'm pretty sure that Johnny is the guy who was fired from the m&m factory for throwing away the Ws. How much do you want to bet he comes back nder a different screen name?
Why on earth would you want to antagonize people that you may need to ask advice from? Are you some kind of mental midget?
I have a close friend that builds a couple of houses a year as the GC. I asked what he makes per house. Typically 15% profit. I asked it he ever made numbers like you suggested. His response was that after building 8 houses he has never made more than 20 and on a few has made 10. A lot of risk for not much money in my mind.
But you are doing the right thing. With your attitude no good GC could work with you anyway. You would be second guessing them and chiseling them for every dollar at every turn. DanT
:-)
Slab looks good! Looks like you have your work cut out for you! Are those tooled or saw-cut control joints? I would expect saw cut, but they almost looks like tooled in the pic. Did they use a laser when they poured? Did you all end up having anything different done on the slab excavation/prep/steel/etc then was done on your fathers? If I remember correctly I think you all had some probs with your father's slab.
We had problems with my fathers so we went with a different crew this time. My fathers house cracked wide enough for ants to come in through the ground. On mine we hired the most recommended guy in the area. Basically they put footings throughout the entire house and reinforced them with rebar. They also put a grid of rebar on top of that which covered the entire slab. About 18" square accrost the slab. The footings were 18" deep and the slab 4". As far as the "saw cut control joints" I dont quiet understand their function. Eddy comes out this week to do porches so I'll ask him but what are they for? I figured something to do with future cracking. As far as your question about how they did it they used a giant machine that rolled accrost the foundation. And yes they used lasers during prep and everything. Its amazing how level this thing came out.I get advice from multiple forums so I'll know if I get bad advice from someone. I don't feel like I should have to backdown just because I'm outnumbered. But whatever it doesn't really matter anymore. I'll be too busy now for the next several months to bug anybody. :)
Nice looking Losh just one thing is there a leak or did you forget to paint around the two lights in the kitchen?
No leak. Just one of the many pick ups on the list for the drywallers to fix. Never got around to painting around the potlights again after the repair. I am sure my wife will keep reminding me though. Thanks.
Losh
Is it me or is there an HVAC supply and return within a few feet of each other in that Living Room Picture? Also I didn't see a receptacle in that island in the kitchen... but as you said incomplete.
I couldn't tell on the HVAC return/supply issue. But I am trying to figure out if that 2 foot wide by 10 feet high opening off the living room is the hallway or not.And at first I thought it was a low pile white carpet throughout, but I'm pretty sure it's still concrete. Is that the new metro look? Oh well it'll make it easier to cut the floor to run the power to the island, or I suppose you could just drop a wire chase from the ceiling LOL...Johny: I know you're reading this and this is the thick skin I was refferring to. Don't get all pizzed off at the comments, but humble yourself and LEARN from them. It'll make you a better man and a much better GC if you decide to go that direction.
What is the rule of thumb on that anways? How far apart should they be
RE--> HVAC return vs. supply-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWPD
As far as possible?
Appreciate the apologies Johnny. You are the man.
Keep posting if you need some help.
I don't really think Johnny's labor hours will be relevant to the aguement. I doubt he can work as fast as professionals. Therefore you will not be able to take his 75k in materails and add his labor cost to get a compariable end prodcut cost.
I would be interested to know the figures as one planing to do his own DIY build. I would love to see teh detailed material costs as well.
One poster here from Iowa posted a very very nice cost list for his home which he mostly played the General. Very useful stuff.
Johnny, I don't see anyone calling you a liar. $75/sqft is do-able if you're able to do some of the work yourself and shop around for materials and get multiple bids on subs.
jt8
"The cynic is one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." --Oscar Wilde
For some reason several people think I am a liar
I don't think anyone has called you a liar. The real issue is you calling GC's crooks, then asserting that they make 233%. I've offered a very generous 100k profit per house if you'll come to Michigan and show me how. If 100k isn't enough, I'll up the offer to 110k. You come, build me ten houses and sell them and you give me my measley 65k profit, you take the rest. Remember, pay me first, then the creditors and vendors and you keep what's left. Also, your name goes on the notes.
It's not nice to call all GC's crooks. Some of us actually believe that it's okay to pay living wages.
blue
66816.59 in reply to 66816.58
Get you license, or partner wiht a builder, and buy some more land. If your making 233% profit you'll be a millionaire in no time.
If you can build 10 more homes, spending $75,000.00 and selling for $250,000.00 in the next three years, you can retire at 35. But, why retire when you are only 35 and can make that kind of money?
10 x $175,000.00 = $1,750,000.00
Make sure you take your balance sheet to the bank. Show them you are making 233% profit, and funding should not be a problem. If you have trouble with the bank, find an investor.
When you get it done, you can write the National Association of Homebuilders, becasue they will probably want you to write a book on how you did it. Then, in your retirement, you will have residual income from the books sales. A method to obtain 233% will have builders scrambling for copies.
Remember me and this great advise when you come into your kingdom.
I built my house three years ago for $49,784.12. 2+3=7
I'm assuming that is excluding land. So, what was the cost per sq ft.? And, what do you think it is worth now (exclusing land value)?
that was including land. My land was $7k for 1/2 acre.. 2+3=7
Edited 12/9/2005 8:39 pm by brownbagg
Allright, what the heck does 2+3=7 mean?
I asked that before. He won't tell us. ;-) I'll be glad for him to figure my pay, but not to figure my outgoing invoices. :-)
Hey Johnny, not bad, remember you are posting on a board that is full of very experienced individuals who are probable older then you by several years. Your home can be improved and trimmed as money and time permits. Remember don't ever let negative vibes hold you back...stinky
Slab goes in tomorrow morning! Heres a shot with everything formed up and ready to go. I had no idea they were going to use that much rebar. Should be pretty strong I think.
Hey, Johnny. Be proud of your project! Everyday, on this board you have plenty of people with sticks up their rear telling you that "you are an idiot", "you can't do it", "you need to hire a rocket scientist to get that done". NOW LISTEN UP FOLKS, AND EVERYDAY ON THIS BOARD YOU HAVE GREAT! FRIENDLY! AND VERY KNOWLEDGIBLE PEOPLE WILLING TO HELP. Ignore the first, listen to the later.
I say build your houses. If you or anyone else at a later date want ot trick them out with wood window sills, or trim, or new light fixtures, it is easily done. In the meantime you are miles ahead of everyone else who buys more house than they can afford adn then wonder why they don't ahve any furniture or are still sitting on family hand-me-downs.
I would be very interested in a full accounting of your projects, so if you are able as you pay the bills post them here. Ignore the scoffers.
Dear Shaken:Allthough probably somewhat true, this is not the problem ---- "Everyday, on this board you have plenty of people with sticks up their rear telling you that "you are an idiot", "you can't do it", "you need to hire a rocket scientist to get that done"."This was the comment that dear Johny made which raised the hair on few of us ------"Amen brother! damn GCs are making a goddamn fortune and it really should be a crime. im acting as a GC to build myhouse and by the time I am done I will spend 75,000 for a house that will be worth 250,000 (according to my insurance company) plus the worth of the land which is 3.5 acres. Now you tell me where the hell all the money goes that the rest of the world has to pay 175,000 dollars which seems to vanish in thin air just to buy a house????freakin highway robbery man! heres a tip. punch that #### and ask for your money back!"If you'll follow the threads you'll realize the basis for the discussion. No one should fault a guy for trying to build an economical house. But they have plenty of right to defend their trade and its' integrity.
It's gonna take Johnny a long time to live that one down... When I first read it I just smiled, figuring the source was quite un-informed.
Furhter, I think both you and I know that no builder in his right mind would build a 2700 Sq ft house (or whatever the size is) with sub-starter home detailing... I mean, I can build a barn pretty cheap too...
ncbuilder,
I agree, Johnny was a bit over the top with that one. However, you must admit that some people on the board like to overly hype the skill required for some things. I recall one poster telling one guy that he could not roof his own 12 in 12 pitch roof. Well, it is not rock science. It is a challenge and perhaps many people are not up to it. I knew it was doable. I did my roof having only pounded a few nails in a 4 in 12 roof years earlier. My roof had two dormers, one shed dormer, two major valleys, a chimmney to reflash, etc. and was 12 in 12. I was slow and that is about all I can say about it.
I think it is good for people to help other people to be realistic and to be aware of the details and pitfuls, but not to make more of it than it is. I suppose teh contractors out there have seen more than there share of people butchering jobs and making a mess, and that likely explains their attitude.
Most people on these board are excellent adn very very helpful. It is the other few who get uppity.
Johnny
Keep up the good work. It's a great thing to find someone building their own house these days.
I'm just finishing up my own last house for myself and family. I have a bit more experience perhaps and even a few years on your dad but it's still a great project.
I haven't yet figured the exacy usable sq footage but it's big, only 9 rooms total but the smallest is 20 x 20, rec room is 19 x 84.
Some figures that I know are,
Basement
ICF package to do make a 10' wall 250 around
footings (incl waterproofing wrap, door/window
bucks and plaster)
$9,400
comcrete and pump 6,800
Masons bill to finish 3200 sq ft floor 950
1 month rental of trackloader for digging 2,400
steel, stone, poly, foam for underslab 3,500
total $ 23,050
Windows and exterior doors $45,000
Roofing
60 sq shingles, felt, drip edge and ridge vent $6,500
Siding and exterior trim all Hardie products $11,400
Sheetrock and insullation $10,500
Interior doors and trim $12,000
Flooring
4,500 sq ft red oak, 1,000 sq ft tile, 2,500 sq ft
Bamboo with underlayment, grout and finish $17,400
Kitchen cabinets w/granite countertops $52,000
Well and septic $15,200
1,500 sq ft exterior deck $8,000
Total known expenses so far $201,050
Heat and AC are going to be close to $15,000
Electric probably $5,000 plus DW's light fixture bill
Plumbing w/fixtures nearing $20,000
There has to be another 30k someplace in lumber
So I'm nearing $250,000 for something just under 8,000 sq ft.
Land cost was $28,000 20 years ago (today's value 200k?)
Appraisal last month $950,000............... fair sweat equity for 2
years work
So keep up the good work and you can't help but get ahead :)
Around here you need almost $30K for permits, taps & fees does'nt matter if its 500 sq.ft or 5000 sq.ft. you still need to come up with the 30 grand for the paper work!
Keep pluging along, Best thing in life is a small or no House payment!
I paid $280.00 for the builders permit. Slab looks fantastic! They used the whirley birds for about 5 hours and made is smooth as glass. I'll try to get pictures tomorow.Foundation, concrete, labor, and tax = $16,100.26