Do any of you use pitch blocks when you are coping crown moulding?
Edited 6/18/2005 7:17 am ET by quicksilver
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Edited 6/18/2005 7:17 am ET by quicksilver
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I don't know what you mean when you say pitch block but if I have more than a little crown to do, I build a box that holds it the reverse of how you cut it (that would be wall side down, ceiling side facing you) and that way coping straight up and down or jut a few degrees away from you makes for a nice tight fit. Add a clamp and it makes a dandy way of holding it so both paws can be on the jigsaw.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
RW that statement by Mark Twain is really . . . man a lot of words are coming up but none seems appropriate. Put it this way I like it, and sadly find it to be true far too often. I cope on what I call a traditional saw bench, about 20'' s off the ground made with 1x12. And before I get into this I'm not in any hurry when I'm hanging. I love hanging crown, I just want to set a good professional pace. I cut two blocks at the same angle the crown comes off of the wall, typically 38 or 45 degrees. Take the crown and set it on the bench and hold the bottom-back of the piece against the table. Slide the pitch blocks between the table and the crown and nail them onto one of the benches about sixteen inches apart. When the crown is set on my benches it holds the crown up as if the bench top was the wall. This allows me to look straight in at the profile exactly as it sets one the wall. This angle reveals the actual cope line. Coping to the right of the pitch blocks will give you a left hand cope and vice versa. I use a piece of base or a piece of rabbeted 1x to keep the crown from slipping down. My philosophy on coping crown is that when it leaves the bench it should fit: no hand backs or touch ups. This is pretty easy for standard crown. But when working large crowns or crowns that nearly come out to level it is more difficult. A lot of us have made cuts that you can see light through. With the crown in the jig you can look straight down into the profile and it will show you your line. Any waste part of the board that sticks past the face profile needs to be removed. This way on a large piece you won't be coping more than you need. And you will also never miss a cope. Try it it really works nicely.Edited 6/18/2005 3:24 pm ET by quicksilverEdited 6/18/2005 9:15 pm ET by quicksilver
Edited 6/19/2005 4:04 pm ET by quicksilver
I think we have a classic case of to MAE to to MAH to - we're essentially doing about the same thing and explaining it with different words.
Edit: oh yeah, MT. I've left it there so long because I also think its so true. And not tryin to be the crusty old cynic. It is what it is.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Edited 6/18/2005 6:50 pm ET by RW
Agreed. Once you see it. It seems so obvious.
When coping, I cut the inside miter, clamp the crown to a bench face up, and jig saw close to the finish edge with a scroll blade. I keep the paws on the meat of the off-fall as much as possible so as to backcut as much as I can. When needed I rest my finger under a paw to keep from marring the finish. I make relief cuts where needed. I will then clean the cut with files. Then flip the crown and backsand with a belt sander, especially in the ogee part of the profile.
Now I can't claim "no hand-backs" but we put up large prefinish crown (6"-9") that often is cupped. This will alter the initial miter cut so as to leave the center of the profile open with top and bottom touching or vice versa. After a piece or two I can usually compensate, backplanning the whole board or scribe sanding the miter cut in a curve.
I've found that with a good jigsaw and the right speed (sometimes slower is faster) I can cope just about anything; chair rail, base cap, frieze board, etc.
I agree with using a jig saw. With a steady hand and a sharp eye I can cope near perfect and much faster
I think I have been resistant to really putting forth the effort to learn and master the jigsaw coping (have tried it and seen it done) technique because: one - I like my approach, two - I only run crown a couple of times a year, well early this year we did a whole house that was three and five piece, the actual crown was a six inch cove with a bead top and bottom 45 degrees easy cope, but pretty thin on top. I didn't run a stick the year before that, and three - I'm a little old fashioned. But the pitch block technique will work for you too and eliminate hand backs. An alternative is to after your cope simply unclamp and tilt the crown up and sight down along the profile. This will show any material that needs removed. Once the moulding leaves the bench it should not come back. I've always been curious because evrytime I see an article FHB or or show (ask this old house) they never mention sighting the crown from the bench in the same position as it will be on the wall.
Flat and held secure to the table with a jigsaw and ao101 blades ( a real jigswaw, bosch). Let the table ride on the endgrain exposed by the mitre and you should have more than enough back cut. Takes a little practice but well worth it.
The amount of backcut varies. Where the line of the profile is close to plumb (like at the middle of the ogee or bottom af the cove) you don't need that much backcut but as the profile come towards level (like at the top of the ogee or cove) you will need more backcut. So what your proposing doesn't work as a rule of thumb. It will work some maybe most of the time but trying what I'm suggesting works all the time. Try it.
After you learn how to do it with the jigsaw flat on the mitre and are confident with it, you can alter your method to esure you have enough back cut.
I used to keep a Coping saw handy for fine detail and stuff like shoe. But, I never met a cown I couldn't get a tight Cope on with a jigsaw.
Each to there own but I'm a Jigsaw guy.
Quick
I have never heard of a pitch block to cope crown.
I cope all my crown with a right angle grinder. Just finishing up a whole house of crown. I don't think I spend more than 20 seconds coping a single piece. This is simple 4" crown. Have some 7 or 8" to do so I'm sure it will take a bit longer. Cant imagine doing it any quicker. About half the time I have to do a quick clean up with the file.
I have a few "hand backs" though, doubt that it has as much to do with the quality of the cope as it does with the placement of the crown.
Doug
Interesting thread.
Still having difficulty picturing this pitch block.
What kind of a wheel do you use on the ra grinder?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric, I edited my earlier reponse, the one where I mentioned the Mark Twain quote to try to explain a little better. Admittedly it was kind of vague. Hope it helps.
Listen brother, if you ever run into a problem remember this trick, It really works, especially when crown is pitched 45 degrees. I'm not trying to change anyone's cutting tool just trying to give an insight on sighting the cope line. And saving a little time. Next time you get a piece that needs retouched hold the bottom of the crown down on the table, as if the table was the wall, and sight down. You will see what stock needs removed. And thinking about it this should work for you and your angle grinder approach.
Edited 6/18/2005 9:19 pm ET by quicksilver
I'll give your method a shot tomorrow, with my grinder of course! Didn't think you were trying to change anybody, just throwing out my method.
I kinda see what your saying but I have to do it to get the full effect.
Doug
Good luck. I'd be interested to know the results.
Most of these methods seem pretty much the same in basic theory but differ slightly in execution. Most tradesmen that hang crown often or more will use power tools to do most and touch up with files or whatever. Once the knack is gotten a tradesman can knock out a dozen pre-cut copes in a hour or so. Sighting through the joint will get you there 90% of the time. What will goof it is if the corner isn't square or the walls close to plumb (but that never happens). A cupped piece will also cut differently than a no-cupped one as I mentioned earlier.
As far as coping with a jigsaw, try a couple. You will quickly get the feel for it. We had a new hire that started coping with a hand coping saw. He was doing well but taking a long time. Since I knew that he knew what a good cope was I encouraged him to pick up the Bosch. I told him that if he needed four coped sticks to cut five or six and put aside the first one or two. We're crowning around builtins with lots of small runs and returns so little was wasted. After that first batch he hasn't picked up a handsaw yet and I'm afraid a coupla' his copes looked better than a few of mine, doah!
I'd never thought of the grinder approach. While it seems quick, I'd think you'd have to fall back on the jiqsaw with a crown that has a complicated profile; multiple ogees, fillets, shoulders, beads and coves. Like to see it done though. Would you use it on cherry 8" crown when you have exactly the number of pieces you need, everybody's watching and you would have to be the one to call the boss and tell him you boned a hundred dollar board and may I please have another one that is perfectly stain matched tomorrow?
mbdyer
Just got done doing some 7 1/2" crown with the grinder. The HO, fellow BTer, bought enough crown with one extra piece.
We are done with the crown, all copes done with the grinder, done very well I might add, and guess what, still one piece left over.
I've done a boat load of cherry crown with the grinder, done some custom made curved crown, (cost about $100 a running ft.) with the grinder.
I have never used a jig saw to cope with, don't know what I think about it cause I haven't used it. When I grind I do some minor touch up with a file but that's about it.
To me its the only way to go, but that's just me, I'm sure that those that use the jig saw say the same thing. Hell who cares how you get the cope done, as long as its done timely and done well.
BTW, hell yes I'd grind the cherry crown with no extra, its a chance to shine! I'd rather everybody didn't stand around and watch though, makes me feel a bit uneasy, plus they probably ought to be working to, or they could be out side smoking another cigarette.
Doug
I've always coped my crown with a coping saw and a couple of rasps and it usually works just fine. Yesterday, I saw a jig on the Rockler website (http://www.rockler.com) that looks interesting. It has an angled "face" that serves as a base for a saber saw and will handle crown up to 5-1/2". Has anyone used this gadget?
I have it. It's called Easycope. It's wonderful. I might try the grinder method next in my endless search for the perfect mouse trap.
When you cope with a grinder, do you use a diamond blade? If so, segmented or a continuous rim?Thanks.********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
nikikiwood
I use a floppy sanding disk. 24 or 36 grit, depending on how much and how fast I want to hog the wood off.
You need a rubber backer for the disk, although I've herd of others using two disks, back to back, that way they can cut from both directions. I have never done it that way but it makes sense.
You should be able to get the rubber backer for the disk damn near anywhere, big box stores have them. They only cost a few bucks.
Doug