While framing a new home in Wellesley, MA this week I was running crown down the rakes of dormer gables. An old timer stopped by and asked me whether I was mitering the corners or “coping” them. I replied that I was mitering them and we chatted more. Upon reflecting I realized that I don’t even know what he meant by coping! Framing comes to me like second nature, however trim and finish take work for me. I don’t want to exclusively frame for the rest of my life (I’m 28) and have been messing around with cabinet making in my home shop for fun and technique purposes but most of what I learn is from books and taking apart half the furniture in my own home to see the construction. What is meant by the term “coping”? In addition has anyone out there started out framing and made the transition from strictly framing to full remodeling or finish work? How did you do it. Did you take a pay cut and go work for someone else for a few years to learn the ins and outs? I ran a crew framing production spec homes for a couple years and am now framing custom high end stuff but I can see that sooner or later I will need to grow into bigger and better things than just framing. I have my builder’s license in MA and have never even used it. I guess I probably could have split this into two seperate posts huh? Help me out here!
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I'm having a hard time visualizing how you would cope crown on an outside corner at a rake. Maybe he was pulling your leg or really didn't know what he was talking about and was lonely so he simply wanted to start a conversation with someone in the trades.
Coping is a technique for joining inside corners of trim material that makes a tighter, neater looking fit. It is less likely to pull apart or open up if the wood shrinks or the house moves a little. For interior crown, we cope half of it and mitre half. The larger ones are harder to cope and some profiles are impossible to cope.
very common for baseboard tho'.
I can't begin to think how to explain it without photos. Maybe someone else has a link to an article or a book to recommend.
I started in construction as a roofer and got fast pretty quick making good money at piecework so I had to back off the income a little to move into more carpentry and remodeling. But it's been well worth it in the long run. Work around good people and keep your eyes open.
Hey, good stuff as always guys...thanks. I think I get it now. I would still make both my inside miter cuts, but then on one I would basically remove the "inside" stock exposed as a result of the miter to get a closer cleaner looking joint. Right?? Just on one of the pieces. Piffin, now that I have your attention I just want to thank you for all of your good advice and whatnot posted around this site. Every time I scroll through a thread I look forward to coming across your posts. The trades would be impossible for new jacks like me trying to come up if it weren't for guys like you. Thanks again.
diesel, no, don't make both inside miter cuts, only one. The other corner piece (the one installed first) is cut square, no miter, no bevel. The coped piece butts into the square cut piece at the inside corner.
Steve
Thanks graciously dp.
Someday it'll be your turn when I'm fertilizing oak trees instead of using their lumber.Excellence is its own reward!
Someday it'll be your turn when I'm fertilizing oak trees instead of using their lumber.
Hey Piffin, you going into landscaping next? ;)
Steve
S.J.MERRETTE Carpentry & Construction • Robesonia, PA
Nothing is impossible...It just hasn't been done yet.
Edited 9/6/2002 8:03:47 PM ET by Steve Merrette
We ALL eventually go into landscaping!
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Or backfill.Excellence is its own reward!
An important thing to consider when doing any kind of interior trim, is the relative layout of the room. If you can help it, you never want to have to make two coped joints on a single board. If you are careful and consider your layout before you start, this can usually be avoided. Also, long runs of trim will need to be joined by a scarf joint which is a 45 degree joint that faces away from the primary visual point in the room.
Email me if you want more info, Fine Homebuilding has run some great stuff as recently as last month that will help you with this. As we like to say, the "Devil is in the details." If you can master these skills, you can write you own ticket financially. I am self taught and you can pick it up too. It is like a light bulb switching on when you finally get it.
Good luck,
Jeff
Diesel,
Did you have any problems with those miters?
Clampman
Standard coping procedures are pretty simple, as Piffin said. I’ll try to explain the very basics. Don’t hold your breath.
Take the piece of stock to be coped and cut one end as if you were cutting an inside miter. Then put the board in front of you, such that your body replaces the wall to which it would be mounted. Pick up a coping saw and cut, from top to bottom, along the curving edge of the face of the profile created by that 45 cut you made on the saw while holding the coping saw blade a bit more than 90 degrees to the face. In other words, undercut it just a few degrees to ensure that the very face of the coped end fits tightly up against the piece you will want it to mate to. You are, in effect, removing the entire “pointy end” of the stock created by the 45, leaving only a curvy edge, which mirrors the face profile of the stock itself. Curves and other details that are too tight to negotiate with the coping saw are removed with files, sandpaper, or the like.
When you are coping baseboard, for instance, you will “chase” the stock around the room. Imagine that you have one piece of baseboard installed. Cope one end of another board to mate to the first; square cut the other end to length and install. Repeat the sequence again.
I sometimes create a coped end piece of the stock about 1’ in length (other end square cut) that will aid me in measuring the rest of the pieces in the room by offering it up and measuring back to it’s 90 end from the next wall corner to give me a total measurement for the newest piece to be placed.
One of the big advantages to a coped corner is that the face will fit tightly even if the corner isn’t square. Another is that coped corners won’t open with changes in humidity levels, as a mitered corner is apt to do.
I miter outside corners and either cope or miter the inside ones...depends on the angle of the corner and the type of molding being run.
Did a quick Google. Here's a site with some pice of coping. It's not the greatest, but it may help a bit...
http://www.insidespaces.com/howtopages/coping-basemold/coping-basemold.shtml
Goldhill, you did a good job of explaining coping......
I've got a tip to add for those "too hard" t cope pieces. I've done a fair bit of Victorian repair and renovation....it can make you "coping crazy".
I set up with my CMS, and then I make table from sawhorses & a 4' X4' piece of ply. I get out an old 3/8 corded drill insert a 1/2" drum sander attachment, using a clamp to hook to the end of my sawhorse table and then after I cope to the "rough", I quickly can sand the heck of coping.........
I love do coping...............enjoy it yourself..
GeoD
Never occurred to me to try such a thing with a CMS, but sounds ingenius. Is it a safe setup? Does it work well for its intended purpose or just so-so?
Duh! Just realized that I misread your post about the sanding drum and the copes. You mount the drum sander in the 3/8" drill, not in the CMS. Duh! Evidently, I'd had one too many. Worked better reading it tonight.
Have you tried using a dremel, it works pretty god for me.
Also diesel, craig savage has a pretty good book and video showing and explaining how to cope. Its not that difficult once you see it. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
this doesen't speak to the actual procedure. but I always think of "coping" just like I think of coping with any problem. Like if you don't have enough money for all your bills, you call the Phone company and ask them if you can make an arrangment. It allows you to make it work.
Although your finished Joint will be perfect, the back side might be "hogged out" or less pretty , all to make it work. There is not a standard cut like "mitre cut". It has to do with scribing, fitting, and cutting untill you make it work. "Coping".
"I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground"
If there was crown running down the rakes of the dormer gables into a level crown returning to the main roof, the old man was lonely and blowing smoke up your butt, no coping there, and with some crown profiles, it even takes different width crown moulding, at the least, it takes a different bed angle on the rake. Now for coping, after you use your jigsaw to cut the profile...Dremels are cute, but a 4" angle grinder with a 40 grit sanding wheel will really keep the job moving, but only if you do this for a living and you're actually trying to make money off the job...
Rakin' it in, yar de har...BB
Try a Collins Coping Foot. I use one on my Bosch barrel grip jigsaw.
Fast and accurate.
I would like to help you out here but I'm having some difficulty visualizing your work. I was basically wondering first do you have a sloping or level soffit, and second what type of cornice return do you have? With that said, crown molding would usually be found where the soffit meets he outside wall of the house (which is essentially an intersection between a wall and celing) and terminate at the return. I guess if you have a rake cornice that matches the main cornice you could put crown there, but I would like to know how you cut it given the the pitch of the roof etc.. I know I would probably have quite a pile of scrap before I got that cut right. I have seen a type of brick mould nailed to the fascia running down the rakes, that again terminates at the return. Some people refer to this as "crown".
As far as cutting the cope at the inside corner: first slice off the end of your piece at 45 degrees to the left of the right end or vise versa, to form an outline, then take your coping saw and cut along the outline with the saw angled inward. You may want to rub a pencil along the edge to make the cut line more visible. File the edges to fit if you must. The way I learned was to take a pile of scrap crown and coped until I dropped. Finally got it right.
There is still quite a bit of debate whether to specialize in one area of carpentry or be a jack of all trades. My opinion is that it depends. Depends on where you are located as far as rural or urban, work available, and your own preference. You still have time to decide.