Hi, I’m new to the forum. I’ve read the messages on copper pipes. I had my house built 2 years ago in North FL. Copper pipes were used for the house plumbing. I ran PVC from the well to my shop. All pipes are buried underground. When we first moved in, we had problems with iron bacteria. Although we shocked the well with a prescriped amount of chlorine, the problem didn’t disappear. The person who dug our well installed a chlorinator/dechlorinator for the house. The water cleared. The shop receives untreated water. After a few months, we are finding the house water is rust-colored, but the shop water is clear as can be. Iron bacteria is currently negative.
A neighbor who just built his own house said when he went to the plumbing supply store to buy his pipes, he was told copper pipes aren’t the quality they used to be. They suggested PVC pipes. He called his son, a plumber. He said he’d use the PVC over copper.
Does anyone know if the copper pipes could be our problem? I called the EPA. They recommended we test the house and shop water for bacteria, sulphates, copper, chlorine, and PH. We’re waiting for results. Maybe it’s the chlorinator/dechlorinator malfunctioning? At times we taste chlorine which shouldn’t be. We’ve had our well-guy out here. When we get the test results, he’ll come back with a company rep.
Thanks in Advance.
Replies
Water is complex, and it could be a lot of things. Getting the testing done is a good idea.
If chlorine levels are too high, it can cause copper pipes to give off copper. But I doubt it would be so much that you could see it. The test results will tell.
I'm not certain, so no-one jump on me if my technical lingo is not quite right, but this might be what's happening. I have a lot of iron in my well water also. I can take a large pot of water from the tap and it looks clear. If I put it on the stove and heat it, it turns slightly rust colored ,-the iron is oxidizing. There are many things that can make iron oxidize, heat, air, ozone... so maybe your hot water heater is doing this in your house. I'm assuming you don't have hot water in your shop. It could also be your chlorinator. When it oxidizes, I don't think it is really doing anything but becoming visible.
A simple iron/sediment filter worked pretty well for me. It doesn't take all the iron out, but most of it. I also put an aerator in my holding tank. This oxidizes the Iron in the tank and makes it settle to the bottom. My outlet pipe from the holding tank is about a foot above the ground so these settling particles don't leave the tank. Ozone is even more efficient than air for this purpose, more expensive also. I seriously don't think it has anything to do with your pipes, unless of coarse the copper can oxidize iron. Do you notice the color to be more extreme in fixtures you use less often? The longer the water sits in the pipes (any pipes), the more it oxidizes. The heat, air, chlorinator, or whatever is just speeding up the process.
JB
Thanks JB and Waynel5 for the response about rust colored water and copper pipes. The test for iron came back negative in previous tests. We're waiting to see what the new test will show. Hopefully we'll have the results tomorrow.
I don't know much about water chemistry.... but.... I have read on this board that copper piping does not last well in some parts of Florida. I would assume that the plumber who did your house would be up to speed on the water and which materials to use, but you never know. Might want to call the building department and see if the head plumbing/mechanical guy has any words of wisdom.
Copper pipes do not last anywhere in most of Florida. New construction will use CPVC or PEX for the most part. I'm in central FL and every house in my neighborhood (24 year old homes) has had a repipe. Mine lasted 24 years, probably in part to the water softener on the entire house, but my neighbors went after 8 years. Some have gone as soon as 5 years.
It's not really an issue of the quality of copper, but the quality of water. I've also read that the increased amount of lightening in FL helds speed up the corrosion of copper pipes. In the north east, copper pipes corroding through with pin hole leaks (or entirely busting) after 5 years in unheard of. In many areas of FL, it's common place.
We received the lab report on the water today. Everything is within normal limits except the copper which is 1.4 mg/liter. The highest acceptable number for drinking water is 1.0. We were again advised not to drink the water. They didn't retest for iron, something we will do.
We live in an area of homes no older than 10 years. Our soil is actually white powder sand. It's acidic. We are near many springs and rivers. The power company has said that our development seems to get the most lightening strikes in the area. Our well was hit in March '03.
So, your words of wisdom may be valid in our case. We don't seem to have any leaks.
How much of a job is replacing pipes when the house is built on a slab?
Thanks.
Others will comment on how hard it is to replace pipes in a slab, but I'd guess it's jack-hammer time. My in-laws live in Florida and they have a lot of sulfur in the water (Bradenton area), so my guess is the sulfur and the acid water are attacking the copper and turning it to something like copper sulfate (but that would be a greenish blue).
A former boss of mine had his piping in his slab of his ranch style house go out. He ran the new pipes over his roof as it supposedly doesn't freeze in the Bay Area. Of course a couple of years later his pipes froze and flooded his place...
I guess it was when I visited San Francisco that I was surprised at all the pipes running up and down outside walls--I thought it looked pretty tacky, but I guess you can't argue with inexpensive, and if they don't freeze, what the hey.
When you re-pipe, they do not hammer up your slab and replace the pipes in the slab. They run through your attic with PEX or CPVC. The cost depends on the # of outlets you need. My house is 1850sq ft, I had PEX done. I had the following outlets:
3 athroom faucets2 shower outlets1 kitchen sink1 washer/dryer1 water live for refridgerator2 house bibs1 master water supply into house1 water heatPermitTotal cost was $2300, this included the drywall repair guy. Other estimates ranged from $1900 w/o drywall repair to $2400 including drywall repair. It's a pretty big business in FL so there is a lot of competition.I opted for PEX because it only took 1 day to do, the next morning an inspector was out to sign off, 2 days later the drywall guy was here. CPVC takes 2 days minimum because they have to glue everything and wait for it to dry before they can come back and do testing/final fitment, then they get the inspection.
If you look at the following link, you'll see pictures of the carnage it causes in your house. A good drywall repair guy fixed all my cut outs in 4 hours, sprayed on new texture. After painting, you didn't even know there was a hole cut.
http://gallery.slipoftime.com/repipe
Having pipes in your attic is preferred for finding leaks, and it makes repairs MUCH cheaper. A repair in a slab is minimum $500 from any plumber I called. The only downside to pipes in the attic is your cold water comes out BURNING hot in the dead of summer here in FL, even with the insulation on it. Have to let it run for 60-90 seconds before it cools down.
I think you need to get a water sample from between your meter and your house and find out if your pipes are causing the high copper or not. If you find out it's the pipes, then I'd personally opt for a re-pipe, or see if there is recourse with the builder. You said your house was only 2 years old didn't you?
We have a private well. Had the man who dug our well and also installed the chlorinator-dechlorinator come out. He brought a company rep with him. Turns out he had us using chlorine that was twice as strong as it should have been.
Also, he was missing two check valves.
We were getting high chlorine in the house when we added chlorine and backflushed the filter. Now we know why. The high chlorine was causing the copper pipes to release the copper into the water.
The check valves are on order at this time. Hopefully this will solve our problem.
Thanks again to all who have helped.
CZ
Thanks for letting us know. So often we never hear back what the real cause and solution to a problem was.