Please help me with your insight. My wife is an interior designer and has designed our new house to have copper countertops and a copper shower. The countertops, I think that I have under control. My HVAC contractor is a sheet metal worker and is going to bend them on a break to fit (over the counter and up the wall to the bottom of the wall cabinets). He is going to solder them together in the corners where the sheets meet. This will be installed over a solid countertop substrate.
On the shower, she has designed copper sheets for the walls, draining to a base made from slate. My question is whether I can simply install the sheets over Durarock with a mastic on the Durarock, just as I would with tile? Do you all think that I would need to worry about consdensation on the back side of the copper or Durarock? Two of the shower walls are exterior walls (2X4 construction with blown in cellulose insulation).
Please send me your advice and recommendations.
Many thanks,
Brett
PS. Do any of you have tips for me on a process to force patina the copper so that I do not have to wait years for it to turn?
Replies
And people here thought my idea of a carbon fiber shower was weird. Well with the price of copper now a days you are going to pay a pretty penny for that shower.
There is a story here that Francis Ford Coppala wanted to patnia the copper cladding on his building in SF. Big cool old building with tons of copper on the outside. They say he collected horse urine from his ranch and sprayed the copper with that. Well I'm sure he didn't do it personally...boy how'd you like to get that job? All the copper on the outside of that building has a nice solid green patnia now...
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
It's not just horse urine that works. . . . something to keep in mind in a shower. There may be telltale signs of early patina. . . . .
I was admiring coppola's building when I was in the neighborhood for chinese new years day. . . pretty classy building, that.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I missed the post for a carbon fiber shower - I was thinkinbg about using carbon fiber reinforcement for some overhead garage storage... mabey I'll post about what I actually used later.
From what I learned a year ago, there was a bit of a CF shortage that was driving up the prices of the raw materials.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Now - how in the world would a person go about applying urine to the walls of a shower?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Now - how in the world would a person go about applying urine to the walls of a shower?;)"But most showers are not big enough for the horse. Much less getting one up the stairs..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I just hope for your sake she is swearing ( IN Writing!) that she will either take care of the water staining or won't complain about it .
Well copper is going to look very unhappy for a long time, especially after exposure to kitchen and bath chemistry. The right solder for copper is probably the wrong material for a food prep area. Slate is a poor choice for a shower receptor too.
How about copper tiles (metallic)? - they do make them.
Jeff
Edited 3/30/2007 10:47 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
IDs usually come up with exotic impractical ideas for OTHER PEOPLE to suffer with. Iam finding a perverse pleasure in the thought that she will have to dwell in this space herself.sorry Brett - too many bad experiences with IDs
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Can't help with the shower but Wilsonart makes metallic laminate in 3 copper finishes you may want to check out. Unless the misses insist on real copper, the laminate cost a little less. I've done a few pubs and bars and they hold up well with out the need to use toxic polish.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Building as thou art paranoid never harmed anyone.
Don't know about copper countertop except that the laminates sound good. I don't see how you'd get enough lead in your food from any solder to worry about that though. Seems like you'd have to be cutting lemons over the solder joints and then drinking the juice off the counter to get much lead.
But how are you going to keep the shower clean and not affect the patina? Seems like every time you clean the soap scum off the walls you will remove the patina. I would think that the patina washing down the drain over your feet would also tend to turn your feet (and the shower pan) green. I suppose you could patina it ("liver of sulfur" is what we used in art class on copper toolings and there are products available in hobby stores to turn it blue-green (vedigris) instead of black) and then clear coat it to keep it that way--for a while.
I have a couple of reservations as to the design. Not that it's a bad idea; I just think it needs some "fine tuning."
Metal countertops = noise. One way to keep the counter from becoming the biggest drum you've ever owned is to glue a thin layer of padding between the metal and the wood base under it.
Soldering the top to the wall is not something I would have thought to do. Rather, I'd have the wall overlap the backsplash, possibly sealing with a synthetic rubber caulk, such as Lexel (that stuff is so clear as to be invisible).
Soldering the sink to the top is likely a very good idea. naturally, solder approved for potable water ought to be used.
There are various embossed or textured sheets available; I'd look at something along those lines for the walls in both the kitchen and shower. I think a deep embossed pattern would only look better as the recessed areas darkened with time, while casual cleaning would keep the 'peaks' bright.
"Seasoning" the copper can't help but take time; sure, you can help it along, but it will not turn out well if you try to rush it too much. After everything is installed, I'd mist it with a WEAK vinegar solution, being careful not to let drips or runs develop. I might do this two or three times. Then I'd rinse it all off with a baking soda solution, wash it, and apply a good coat of Turtle wax.
The area behind the shower panels I would design to drain. I'd paint the DuRock (and not use greenboard), and caulk the seams. Then, using a spray-on contact cement, I'd cover the walls with "Scotch-Brite" pads. I'd then glue the metal sheets to that. This would give you the ventilation and draining that you need. Again, I'd have the wall panels overlap the shower pan (if there is one).
The entire shower en- closure could be flat seam locked, but never over a rain screen design as you suggest. I could just fab the parts to be site installed, by any competent metal roofer..Oh wait, we are the only ones around here.
Easy as could be. I'd need dimensions and particulars, and could do it w/o a drop of solder I bet.
Same with the counter top, no solder, no exposed fastners.Parolee # 40835
I am sure you could do this job properly; I admit that I have zero direct experience in this area. Yet, here are my concerns: Simply placing the metal against the wall .... I an afraid that moisture will still get behind the metal (as vapor), condense, and have no place to go. Directly attaching the metal to the wall also worries me. I fear that the difference in expansion rates will eventually pop the metal free from whatever glue, mastic, or thin-set that is used to attach it. That is why I thought up the 'rain screen' idea. http://www.reverecopper.com/liberty.html The link has some other links hidden on it; click on 'samples' to see some of the textures available. "Apholic" is a related product that has a plastic backing. There is a link to copper sinks, countertops, and backsplashes. Another link will send you to Better Homes & Gardens. Why re-invent the wheel?It looks like there has already been some work done already!
Well thought out, but real life, exemplifies foilbles.Parolee # 40835
Where are you located? I think we could do better.
Parolee # 40835
PS. Do any of you have tips for me on a process to force patina the copper so that I do not have to wait years for it to turn?
In a shower you won't have to wait long!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.