Having app. 6 different cordless tools (from 3.6v to 18v) I’m getting a beating on battery usage and replacement costs (and yes, I’ve looked into the rebuild units but can’t justify the $20 or so saved per battery on the time it would take to rebuild them). All the reviews I’ve been reading focus primarily on the tool performance and little on the battery cost, recharge time, and availability. Not surprisingly the ‘tool of today!’ becomes the ‘tool of what?’ within a few years, it seems.
I would like to hear some insight, thoughts and ideas on this but more specifically which drill/ drivers you would recommend based primarily on the battery issue (as before: cost, recharge time, self-discharge, and availability). Here’s my current understanding:
NiCAD – low cost, low capacity and ‘memory-effect’, toxic
NiMH – higher capacity, lower life-expectancy, quicker self-discharge rate when not in use,
LiION – higher still capacity, no memory effect, more costly, (charge time?), toxic
LiPolymer – newer yet, no info available
Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.
David
Replies
My opinnion is that no matter what tool or voltage, the faster you discharge a battery the more the battery is damaged. Higher discharge rates mean more heat build up in the pack. More heat buildup equals damage to the individual battery cells.
How is this heat built up? By using a cordless tool for jobs that are too big for it.
Sure an 18 volt cordless circular saw will rip quite a bit of plywood on a charge. However that is a perfect example of when you should just break out the cord saw. Pushing a cordless tool do do a job which is best suited for a corded tool is a killer on battery life. It may be more conveneint to drill eight 3 inch holes with a cordless drill but if you would just take the time to break out the big drill and leave your driver bit in the cordless you would see increased battery life in the long run.
This is one reason why impact drivers have become more popular. The tool is designed to put more power into action with the same battery voltage thereby taking on some tougher jobs and not killling the battery.
There are a couple of good drill reveiws by Gary Katz in FHB 104 and 153 in which he discusses battery life and do's and don'ts to prolong battery life.
Just my two cents worth.
Webby
Edited 9/13/2008 5:10 pm ET by webby
Thanks for your thoughts, I'll dig into my archive and reread those articles. You have me thinking to look for a corded clutched impact drill, but then I don't believe I've come across one before... have you?
No I haven't seen one recently. Craftsman used to make a corded drill with a clutch just like a cordless however it wasn't well received.
Makita however offers an all in one tool. Impact driver, Hammer drill, Drill. It has a 1/4 inch hex chuck but is kind of pricey. I think it is model number BTP 140
Impacts generally offer lighter weight, more power than the same voltage drill and more speed. They are not ideal for drilling however they will drill, and would stand up to the every once in a while one and a half inch hole.
Corded and the larger voltage cordless impact drivers are popular with the deck builders around here.
I agree with the other posters chargers can also make a big difference in performance.
Webby
Edited 9/14/2008 5:13 pm ET by webby
I could not locate a corded version of the BTP 140 but I did find a Makita corded, variable speed impact driver that I believe is going to fit my bill: for those interested- Makita 6952 2.3 Amp Impact Driver <http://www.amazon.com/Makita-6952-2-3-Impact-Driver/dp/B000140B4A>. The reviews generally are from people who, in many cases, have cordless drivers/ drills and find this a better option given the various battery issues encountered.
Thanks again all,
David
I took some batteries that I thought were junk and out them on a multi-bay charger and they are good as new again. Before that time my charger was not recognizing them.
Good I hope it works for you.
Be aware that initially impact drivers feel differently than the cordless you are used too. I don't know if you have used one but if you havent, it just takes a litttle getting used too.
It will rattle but it isn't broken.
Webby
Edited 9/15/2008 8:58 am ET by webby
NiCad is long gone, and NiMH is on the way out.
Don't run the battery totally flat if you can avoid it. Don't leave the battery on charge for more than 24 hours.
NiCad is long gone,
I guess that makes me retro since I just bought a bunch of nicad batteries.
The 2 main reasons for my decision were price and cold-weather performance. I can quantify the price difference, but I only have anecdotal evidence on the cold-weather issue, but I know the way I use my tools and they may not get a chance to warm up (like bringing them indoors ahead of time) before I need them.
that makes two of us...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Yeah, two of us who are up way too early on a Sunday morning. I'm heading out in a few minutes for a day of bicycle riding. What's your excuse?
front rolled in....
that and old age...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
This expands on your assessment:
NiCad: $ Least expensive. Heaviest per volt. Must be charged more often, but can be charged more times. Best for cold conditions. Toxic cadmium means batteries should be recycled.
NiMH: $$ Moderate price & weight. Better run time (higher amp hours) than NiCad but shorter cycle life (lower number of times battery can be charged). Not so good in cold. Non-toxic.
Li-Ion: $$$ Cost 40% more per volt than NiMH but weigh 45% less (18v power at 12 or 14v weight). Run times and cycle life are similar to NiMH, but while idle NiMH batteries loose 25% of their charge per month, Li-Ion only loose 2% (a big benefit for sporadic users). Also not cold friendly. Non-toxic. Newest technology so many new features can be found (nice ergonomics/lights, etc.)
You get output of these tools by multiplying amp hours by volts (except that the larger volt Li-Ion tools have rounded up voltages--Milwaukee "28v" tools are 25.2v, etc.
Here is a comparison to show run times of two cordless tools:
Makita 2.6 Amp hour x 14.4v = 37.44 (will drill 22.75 1-1/2" holes in 1" oak per charge)
Hilti 3.0 Ah x 15.6v = 46.8 (will drill 27.75 1-1/2" holes in 1" oak per charge)
Thanks too, BassWood, I appreciate your expanding on the info I had, it helps to clarify.
The quality of some OEM batteries is, at times, not as good as the ones used in rebuild packs, as the rebuilders have the option of giving you a higher MAH rated battery.
But more importantly, the charger may be damaging your battery. Tools that are supplied with a "smart charger" will usually have longer battery life, as the battery charge is stopped when the battery reaches fulll charge, and overtemp protection is also built in. Cheap chargers, usually supplied with inexpensive tools, can eat your $$$ batteries in short order by oveheating and / or overcharging them. Fast rate chargers can also overheat your battery, causing shortened lifespan.
How do you drill 0.75 of a 1" hole??is that based on diameter, area, or volume??What is the cost per year per hole per cubic meter of red oak removed??in Yen??;o).
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
Those "boring" numbers are lifted from a FHB test of cordless drills. I used the Amp hours times Volts approximation of output for the two drills to show the correlation between the output approximation and some real world "boring tests."The relationship of these numbers to Yen depends on your Yang.
The type of charger makes a difference.
The "stock" charger that comes with my Makita 12v tools is a piece of junk compared to the 15 minute charger they offer that runs about $100.
There is a aftermarket charger offered by 10c Technologies that will supposedly charge any battery from any manufacturer with a plastic adapter to hold the battery- but, it is quite expensive and it is made in China.
NiMH batteries seem to hold up more than NiCd, but the NiCd put out a bit more voltage, and work a bit better in the cold. I have not experienced the NiCd "memory effect". All of my NiCd batteries have died from old age and not memory problems.
If you live where it gets below 40*, and invest some money in LiIon batteries, you will be quite disappointed when you need to use those tools.
LiPo batteries have been out for a while in the RC airplane market. They are extremely sensitive to charge and discharge rates. Lots of burning and exploding LiPo batteries (and toxic black smoke) on You Tube.
Worst thing you can do to a battery is completely discharge it. Stop using the tool when performance degrades and pop in a fresh battery.
Unfortunately, it is often cheaper to buy a new tool + batteries than the batteries alone.
The higher the voltage, the fewer the charge/dischage cycles you will get (more heat involved in the battery pack than lower voltages).
The closest purely technical discussions on BT get to politics in the shed are threads on opinions on batteries.
Similarity? - Most folks absolutely have no clue what they are talking about.
Have deceided not to comment on either subject <G>
Similarity? - Most folks absolutely have no clue what they are talking about.
Never stops em from typing though does it!
Doug
Care to educate us on our battery misconceptions?
Don't bother with the politics :)