I have 2 large (6′) corner windows, app 16″ off the floor, on the north-east corner of my current project. The plan calls for built-in corner window seats, about 2 ft deep with storage underneath. The HVAC plan also calls for 2 heat vents under the windows. Would you:
1) still cut the duct openings near the wall and extend them out under the window seats to the toe kick,
2) cut the opening in front of the window seats (so they’re about 2′ 6″ from the wall, a couple of inches in front of the window seats)
3) still cut the duct near the wall and extend them vertically, up behind the window seats and open through a wide window sill/seat. I think this could be done so the window sill and built-in are one, hold cushions in place, and unite the trim ..
4) …. ????
I am concerned about the window getting too cold and having condensation/frost issues if it is too far away from a heat source. Thanks in advance ..
Wane
“this is not a step”
Replies
Hope you get some good info. am also interested in window seat installation. good luck.
I've done option #1, both in window seats and kitchen cabs. Works well.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Go with #1
http://www.heatregisters.com/Rickenbacker/toekick/toekickMainFramePage.htm
My first inclination is to say to not vent at the "back" of the seats. As a horizontal "collecting" surface, it's about dollars to donuts that any sort of grid or vent or grille will be covered up when most needed. To my thinking, it's not "if" it gets covered, only "how much?"
That's obivously not ideal for keeping the windows clear, either.
So, my second thought would be to make the toekick space as open as possible, to help diffuse the warm air all around the seat area (rather than from one, specific, register). The windows will probably still "feel" cold to be near to, but they will still be getting warm air, just not directly.
Might work out ok, though--unless you put a rail of some sort across the window opening, there's not really a "back" to lean up against--so feeling a chill near the window might not be an issue.
"there's not really a "back" to lean up against"
true, it would be more of a ledge to put a coffe mug or something on, cover the edge of and keep the cushions in place ..
It just didn't seem to make sense to do a 180 degree turn in the duct work to exhaust out the toekick (reduced flow), and putting it in front would move the pipe run from beside the cold rim joist, to a warmer joist bay ..
true, it would be more of a ledge to put a coffe mug or something on, cover the edge of and keep the cushions in place ..
Yeah, the trick of that being keeping all the clutter off of it, if the ledge/stop runs neatly around the back edge of the seat. (With the collateral niftiness of making a "trap" of sorts for stuff to wedge between the window's bottom sash and that ledge/stop . . . )
Now, I'm wondering if maybe the thing to do would be to make a tall, skinny supply. I'm thinking like 4x6x36 that would be open along one side just under its own top; this could get a bit of "radiator cover" like trim work to neaten it up. The real trick would be to make sure it did not become a coat stand.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
16 inches is pretty low for the top of a window seat. Is this an existing situation where you want to install windows seats in front of existing windows? Is the 16 inch dimension to the bottom of the window trim? You'll need to allow for the thickness of any cushions and plan on leaning against the windows while seated. It sounds like it may not really work as a practical matter. A photo would be useful.
If the seat box itself is 16", a 2" thick cushion will bring it up to 18", which is pretty standard seating height.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
but 2 inches is a pretty thin cushion and still brings the seat above the window.
2 inches is a pretty thin cushion and
Actually, it's not bad if you get a dense upholstery foam for the core (or "memory foam" for that matter--just big bucks).
still brings the seat above the window
It can be illuminating to take a tape measure to the furniture in one's house. The "magic" height is the back of the knee. In furniture, that's typically around 16-17" tall.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The forced air system was being installed at the same time I was building the fireplace surround/mantle and window seats. I made a deflector out of plywood and flashing stock to direct the air to the register. I bought an oak wooden register and cut it to fit. (We're in the process of repainting the FR, which explains to two different colors. If you don't like the green, talk to my DW.)
edit, We have had no condensation issues since installation, which was in 1993.
View Image
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Edited 1/16/2008 2:40 pm ET by NickNukeEm
I've done this or something like it several times - this is the kitchen; got some returns coming out of bookcases in the hall. Reggio Register (cast iron) grills are nice -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/16/2008 6:18 pm by McDesign
FYI - the local energy star program says toe kick registers are "highly discouraged", the reason being that they are rarely anything other than rather leaky.
My one bad experience with toekick registers was the opposite. Too much heat. HO didn't tell me that the register I rerouted was the primary one in the unbalanced house.
Sheets goods weren't a problem. My oval solid panel doors didn't fare so well. I think the mc got down to 0. Replacing doors and diminishing the air flow solved the problem. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Why are toe-kick registers any more leaky than any others? Tape/mastic the joints, and get a boot that extends to the finished surface. You can put some of the foam weatherseal on the back of the face register if you want.
Please read the attached.
My experience is that it is difficult to get them sealed properly to where conditioned air is not leaking onto the cabinet. Most of the leakage occurs where the metal duct work interfaces with the toe kick itself. I've experienced this both on my own home and on other homes I have built. I'm not talking theory - just what I've seen actually seen happen. Personally though, I don't think it is such a big deal because the conditioned air is leaking inside the conditioned space - even though it is the inside of the cab. I discussed this with one of the Energy Star guys, and he did seem to think it was important. He is the building scientist - not me - I just build 'em. So, I'm just delivering the message...
thanks for all the comments, I'm going to mull this one over for a bit before starting but I'm leaning towards cutting the duct near the wall, some sort of small restricted vertical flow to the windows and hard ducting the majority of the flow horiz to the toe kick .. I'll post what I come up with ..
All they do is claim that toekicks are hard to seal properly. That may be true, but is a technical problem and technical problems have solutions.I'll have to check out the one I have to see how much leakage there is into the cabinet. But like you say, it is into conditioned space, so what's the issue?
We've ran into this problem quite alot last year and tried a few different things. The one that worked the best for us was to put the registers against the outside wall, line the bottom of the units with one inch insluation. Then design an open toe kick to match the unit. We have had good luck with this with both FHA & FHW systems.
Tim
I would go with Door #1 - lol.
Moving the heating vents may sound like a good idea, but if that window seat ever gets taken out in a future remodeling project, they will suddenly be in the "wrong" place.
Here's an 8' window seat I made last year where I had to deal with an existing vent. The center section of the bottom was turned into a "plenum" with some diagonal pieces that directed the air flow to the front. The "plenum" was lined with pieces of a foil covered insulation and the seams were taped with metal duct tape.
The customer is a neighbor that I see almost daily, and he tells me that this worked like a charm. They haven't noticed any appreciable difference in the effectiveness of the heat (or AC) with the window seat in place.
Came down this morning and saw this; wanted to post another good benefit of a window seat / register combo.
We keep downstairs at 50º overight, so on weekend mornings the kids do this if I don't build a fire.
Camping in the house.
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/19/2008 9:24 am by McDesign
you are a lucky man
You are too nice.Like you, I keep my kid inside the window seat at night too, but I don't let her out until she is DONE eating! ;)Will you get that fire built!!! That kids lips look blue!
Warming the house.....No tents necessary this morning!
I did option #2 on a 3' window seat and get about 1/4" of condensation on the coldest nights (0-5*F) with the heavy sleepers in the bedroom (2 cats, 1 dog & 2 adults) putting out lots of hot air. Usually is gone by noon the next day if I don't dry it off with a paper towel before that.
The bedroom gets to about 62*F through the night which might have something to do with it too.