Stupid Homeowner Question #83:
I need to remove a water damaged plywood subfloor in a hallway. We had a bad water leak several weeks ago and the plywood is still showing moisture readings near 20%.
What would be the best tool to use to cut the plywood flush with the drywall? I’m thinking an angle grinder with a saw blade, no? Can the deep of a cut be controlled with an angle grinder?
Thanks for your help.
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Replies
ois it real plwood???
is it seperatig / delaminatig???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
It's not OSB, but real plywood.Plywood is not delaminating. The issue is time. We do not have time to wait until the moisture contact is below 10% to reinstall the hardwood flooring. One side of the hallway is the original exterior wall of the house, so it looks like I could cut down the middle of the hall and pull this half out. The other side would have to to be cut at the wall.Angle Grinder??
Have you installed a blower? You can rent one at Home Depot.
We had 14 high velocity fans running for a week straight.The guy installing my hardwood floors told me it would take 2-3 weeks to get the moisture content in the wood down to an acceptable level, even with a fan running. I do not wish to wait that long.Undercut saw? Angle Grinder? Utility Knife?What say you?
Sawzall?
David,Sawzall? I hope you are pulling my leg.I may be a stupid homeowner, but I'm not dumb.
he was right....
sawzall.... a few blades and a bit of time....
cake and pie...
the angle grinder idea is dangerous and bordering on stupid......Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
OK, how do control the depth of the sawzall blade. Seems like it would be difficult. Seems like it would be tough to get a clean cut.Besides, I already have a tiger saw. I'm trying to get a new tool out of this project :)Thanks for your help.
practice....
and go buy the tool anyway....
yoy said you were gonna hardwood over it anyways... that grinder deal won't give ya straight eitherLife is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
http://www.contractorsdirect.com/6758-Crain-Toe-Kick-Saw-Kit?sc=8&category=9But it is too specialized to buy. But you can probably rent one.
i've got a flush cutter, but the sawsall would be my first choice for what you describe
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I also agree with using a recipcrating saw. Since it's the subfloor, the end of the blade can pass completely through (But do be careful not to cut any wires, etc.). Contrast this with removing underlayment using a recip saw. It's still possible, but requires more experience using the saw at a sharp angle.
Why do you think a recip saw is NOT the way to go? I there something more to it?
Since the current subfloor passes continuously under the wall and the new one won't, you may want to consider some blocking between the joists to re-gain the strength that it used to have. It's not as critical for a hardwood floor as tile, but I would do it anyway.
Now, as for stupid vs. dumb... I'm sure I've been both and maybe even at the same time, but I'm not smart enough to know the difference. :-)
-Don
Sawzall?
Yes.
No need to reinvent the wheel. You could have had it done by now, if you spent less time thinking, and more time doing.
Schools out for summer.
LOL, going to agree with Dustin here. A sawzall would be my first choice that or my Porter Cable Sawboss will get to within an inch of the wall. The angle grinder with a sawblade in it think,... think I would rather operate a chopsaw blindfolded.
I'd agree with the recip for the final cut, if the removal of the subfloor was really necessary.
The right approach is to start with quick and dirty cuts with a circular saw, just barely deep enough to get thru the subfloor. That'll get you within a couple inches of the walls, without hurting the joists or anything. Then rip out the middle of the floor so you can see what's under there. You'll want to pull the shoe, and maybe also the baseboard -- if you get lucky and that gets you access to the edge of a sheet. Use the recip with an offset attachment to clean it up the rest of the way. Block as necessary to support the new edges.
-- J.S.
You sound like you have no clue. Why don't you just get an angle grinder with some sort of blade and go for it! Should be safe, accurate, and easy to control...
No need to get nasty, David.If I had a clue, why would I have posted on the forum?
Do you have a dehumidifier? A fan isn't going to do much if the humidity is high...
If I took my Rigid worm drive saw, and cut the left side of the shoe off, it looks like I could get within 1/2" of the wall in the situation you describe (a new shoe can be reattached later). The remaining 1/2" wood would dry in a short time with a fan.
This would also be ALOT safer and more controlable than using an angle grinder.
How long is the cut you need to make? There is also the Fein Multimaster, which does power flush cuts, but is pretty pricy.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Hallway is about 8 feet long. I have a smaller circular saw that does not look like it could get deep enough, or close enough to the wall.Wonder if I could rent a flush cut saw? Could I use an angle grinder with the handle set on a piece of wood to control depth, or would it still jump around. (Obviously I have no experience using an angle grinder)Thanks for your help.
How about this - Makita Mini Roller for angle grinder.
besides that is a diamond blade set up....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
i just finished cutting up some water damaged subfloor in a bathroom and used a combination of circular saw and recip saw. as the others mentioned, was able to get withing a inch and a half or so of the framing by running the base of the saw along then finishing the corner cuts with the recip saw. wasn't hard to plunge or control the recip saw if the blade speed was high and you pivot and guide with the shoe on the floor.
sorry, no new tools needed.d.
Try a Bosch Finecut saw with flush cutting blade. Not the fastest thing in the world, but it'll get the job done.
Mike, i have a toe space saw, used for cutting floor under the cabint toe space. It has a 4'' blade mounted on a "stem". There is not a table but it does have a guard and it will cut right to the GWB. It is an import brand and was not to pricey. Good luck!
What about using a biscuit joiner set on M and running that along the wall.
If you're happy enough with the finish a grinder will give, why don't you use a chainsaw?
If you're really keen on the new tool approach the Festool circ saw will cut quite close
I think I could control my reciprocal saw more easily then I could my right angle grinder.
Controlling the depth wont be all that difficult, make sure of what's beneath the subfloor so as not to do damage to pipes or wiring.
Doug
Edited 6/21/2006 7:50 am ET by DougU
Crane (or crain) jamb saw. Pricey but maybe you can rent. It's a circular saw with no shoe or guard on one side and the blade has a recess at the arbor so it can cut flush.
just my two cents here, but if you've really had 14 high velocity fans running for a week straight, it ought to be dry enough for laying floor, unless you have the house sealed up tight...
in any case, 10% is pretty dry, and I'd worry more about the flooring being at the right moisture, than the subfloor...especially if the floor is open below....
And if you really are worried, just use tarpaper instead of red rosin under the flooring...
And if you are determined to make the job "perfect" and tear up the plwood, well, a Sawzall is the way to go...
no way I'd rip the plywood up unless I was convinced it was delaminating
Do the joists underneath run parallel to the hallway or perpendicular? If they are paralell, cut out the ply and put in 2x4 blocking to support the new ply. You may not even need to cut totally flush to the wall unless that ply there is too badly damaged.
Fein multimaster or just a recip saw will do the flush cut trick though.
Just my 2 cents. Had to do a similar job to the ply floor in a bath I remodeled.
Since you want to buy a new tool, Makita has a little (3"?) cordless circular saw that will probably get very close to the wall. Or buy an inexpensive circular saw and start removing (grinding?) parts of the guide and blade guard to get closer to the wall. Throw the butchered saw away when you are done.
I think the sawzall suggestions would be setting the saw on a large angle from perpendicular so that you could cut thru the plywod w/o cutting the subfloor. Definetly do-able.
Good luck.
another sawsall vote
mount a long metal blade upside down so the angle of the cut is not too steep
press the blade against the baseboard that is protected with metal flashing and lower to the ply
I haven't read all the way through, so someone else may have mentioned this, but there is a tool called a toekick saw used for cutting wood flooring by cabinets. It should work perfectly for this. It is basically a universal motor with a saw blade on the shaft. Some rental places may have them, or wood flooring places that rent tools should absolutely have them.
Here is one,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000224Q9/qid=1150901412/sr=1-14/ref=sr_1_14/002-4868222-8708053?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=hi&v=glance&n=228013
There are also offset units for sawzalls.
Buy a new tool... a dehumidifier
Service Master came out and ran several industrial dehumidifiers for over a week, but thanks for the suggestion.Subfloor is at 16%-18% moisture still. Black mold or mildow on subfloor.
HiMike,DO NOT put a blade on an angle grinder. Way too dangerous!Since you are going with Hardwood, cutting as close as possible with a cir saw is all that is necessary. Block the seam with 2x and then add the new plywood. Apply felt overall and then lay your flooring.It really should be dry by now. Something else is wrong or being ignored. Look under the ply for soaked insulation or crawlspace.Good luck
> DO NOT put a blade on an angle grinder. Way too dangerous!
Agreed, and also the RPM's would be way too high, and torque way too low. That's the main reason nobody makes a combo saw/grinder, even in the low end market.
-- J.S.
Thanks for the education guys.I decided to take your advice and cut out the plywood as close as I can to the wall with my circular saw. The stupid homeowners' wife thanks you for stopping me from doing something dangerous.
Mike,davidmeiland has been around here for quite a while.Long enough that I think I can assure you he wasn't "getting nasty".He was just stating a fact. Something he thought might make you stop and think, and hopefully.... Not "do something dangerous".=0)
Only slightly faster than the speed of stupid, since 1957.
Am I missing something here?
Make a cut along the wall with any circular saw and you're within 2" of the wall.
Block under the cut edge if you need to, install the new plywood, and keep going.
2" of ply along the wall that's at "near 20 %" couldn't hurt a thing I can think of... Buic
PS - as someone else pointed out, roofing felt would be a bit of cheap insurance in any case.
Not to add another element here but could you isolate the wet areas with some temporary poly walls and use a couple of dehumidifiers in the space?
Oh, sorry I just read the last few posts.
Edited 6/21/2006 5:25 pm ET by fingers
Short of something like a fein tool i'd go for the sawsall. BTW since its just a moisture issue, have you considered borrowing a couple of dehumidifiers?
STOP! STEP AWAY FROM THE FLOOR!
Okay:
1. If you insist on removing the subfloor use a reg circular saw. This will getyou within 2" of the wall. If there isn't and base or shoe moulding - I assume none - you will be within a 1/2" of the moulding when complete. This is good enough. Anything else is way overkill.
2. If you do remove the subfloor, the joist orientation will be a factor. Are they parellel to the wall or perpendicular. BIG difference - work wise. If parralel you'll also need to install blocking.
3. Best solution, since you are already down to 20% is to install 15# felt rather than rosin paper. The moisture will wick out through the underside of the plywood which is where it wants to go anyway - it's a gravity thing. The felt will protect the hardwood floor just fine. This is what is traditionally used on first levels with unfinished/ unconditioned basements or cellars for moisture/ humidity protection.
I am surprised your flooring guy did not mention this option.
Exasperate your vegetables until exhausted; disturb your chestnuts in milk until queasy, then disappoint.
Arabella Weir as Minty Marchmont - Posh Nosh
Just adding my two cents for next time. Several years ago I needed a saw that would cut flush to the wall for a job to replace all the subfloor on the 2nd floor that had termite damage. Bought one called Close Cut, Model2001A, and it had a FlusSa 7-1/4" blade on it. It cut so close that if I wasn't careful, it messed up the drywall. Don't even know if these guys still exist, and I couldn't find the manual to get an address. Maybe there's someone else out there who's heard of it.
I'm tellin ya, chainsaw!
Thanks for all the advice guys. I completed the subfloor removal with a regular circular saw and a tiger saw. Worked great. I marked up the bottom of the drywall in a few spots, but no big deal.The only pain was installing blocking in the middle of a joist bay where the hall floor meets the ceramic tile floor of the Bathroom. As it turns out there were 2 copper supply lines and a PVC waste line running in this bay. Not a lot of room to get a drill or hammer in. Used a lot of construction adhesive and managed to get enough screws in.One thing to remember - Home owners insurance does not cover any damage due to mold. This floor was wet for several weeks. For $50 and a few hours of my time I eliminated a big potential risk.Mike the "Stupid Homeowner"
Thanks for the update. Glad it went well.
-Don