Just installed slick double fibreglass exterior doors made by “Masonite” company – “Feathercraft”. I called the 800 # and the girl basically said “go to Masonite website and leave me alone”.
But anyway I would like some counsel from guys that paint everyday. What’s the best way to go about finishing these doors. There was absolutely nothing said in the brochure about what is required for a successful painting of the doors. Do I need to get that from the paint company?
Replies
http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/paint_a_door.aspx
or BIN 1 2 3
I called the 800 # and the girl basically said "go to Masonite website and leave me alone".
A very good reason right there not to buy Masonite products in the future, IMHO. Make sure you write them a letter on paper and send it by postal mail to emphasize your point. The self-serving corporate philosophy that a list of 20 stupid FAQs replaces real customer service must be discouraged at every opportunity, or we are all, as Dilbert would say, Doomed....
Back on topic, I haven't done this myself, so I can't give you guaranteed advice on painting those doors. But it seems to me that as they are Fibreglas¯, you might do well using a marine primer/paint system designed for use on boats made of that. Might be worthwhile checking with a local pleasure-craft retailer to get their take on this.
Oh yeah...and next time you get the same run-around on an 800 'Help' line, just tell 'em you don't have a computer. Or a touch-tone phone....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Not sure about Masonite's but ThermaTru's come paint-ready (pre-primed). Used Sherwin Williams Duration exterior satin latex on the outside and I believe I used interior satin or semi-gloss on the inside. Ive had no problems. Hope this helps
I think you meant to direct your reply to Fonzie instead of me.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Yes I did, My apologies. :)
You are kidding, right? Therma-Tru fiberglass doors pre-primed?
The brown grained ones are FiberClassics and Classic Crafts. The smooth white ones are SmoothStars. As far as I know, all are bare, right-from-the-press compression-molded fiberglass. I cannot imagine any market forces that would make them spend the money to add a primer coat to a product they have been shipping for well over 20 years.
When I was at Therma-Tru, we tested every exterior paint and primer we could buy, to verify which ones would attain acceptable adhesion to the skins, and which wouldn't. There was quite a wide spread to the results. If you are really curious about the paint or primer you use or want to use, you can call their tech group in Butler, Indiana and ask for the test results, and how your specific coating ranked.
You may think those white SmoothStar fiberglass doors have a factory primer, but look real close. Try to scrape some off. The white is not a coating, it is the through-color of the fiberglass door skin. The wood stile edges are primed, but not the door faces. Take a look at the top edges of the doors you get. See the bare wood?
How does the Zinsco latex primer and Ben Moore (Ace) paint sound - ring any bells? We are assuming sand - dulling with 220 - man I hate to mess up that nice smooth finish!
I honestly cannot remember. I left there in '99. With the right topcoat, though, you don't need to prime. See my post followup to JG, above.
Stinger,
You are right about being pre-primed. I just checked out an unpainted door we have laying around and scraped it with my finger nail. It feels like raw plastic (fiberglass).
However, referencing the thermatru cataloque in front of me it specifically states "Smooth-star fiberglass doors are manufactured ready to be painted and may be painted any color"
Also, although they state the Classic-craft or fiber-classics require a primer coat, "Smooth-star fiberglass doors feature a paintable smooth surface and do not need a primer coat."
Hope this helps.
I probably wrote that text for them. I headed up their engineering, laboratory, and product development functions, but have been gone since the original owner sold the biz in '99. Their blurb about "ready to be painted" is a marketing ploy to make users think there is no hassle with priming.
The formulation for Classic Craft and FiberClassic skins is different from that for SmoothStar only in the filler and colorants used. The bit about the brown ones needing to be primed, and the white ones not, is hogwash.
If you used a (for example) Glidden product without primer on a SmoothStar, and it has performed flawlessly for years, you'll get the same performance on a FiberClassic without priming. It is all in the coating.
Save yourself the trouble of sanding. There is no need to roughen the surface. You should make sure the surface is clean, however, by using some detergent and water, or a TSP solution.
Each primer or paint has its own adhesion characteristics and performance, and whether priming and painting these doors, or just painting without priming, you are best advised to call them and ask about adhesion test results for the coatings you intend for use. They were always happy to oblige when I was there, and probably still are. As I said, go straight to the engineers, in Butler, Indiana.
Stinger,
Thanks for the good info.
BTW, since you have experience from thermatru, we have a job that has been completed for a few months now. About four (4) patio doors of different combinations of fixed and active panels. We have had a nightmare with leaks. We have had the rep out to replace all the weatherstripping, corner pads and now the door sweeps. After spraying the doors heavily with a hose and tracing the water, the leaks seem to be due to improper adhesion of caulking of the jamb to threshold connection.
Do you have any info/experiences to share about patio door leakage, its causes, solutions, etc. and where leaks typically occurred.
Just wondering...
ThermaTru makes the slabs. Their wholesale distributors ("door jobbers") build the units. ThermaTru sells them seal pads to be used between jambface and sill end. Whether the jobber used them is up to the jobber.
I would never install a door, patio or otherwise, in an exposure where rain can get to it, without first installing a pan flashing. That means that every door or patio unit, not protected by at least 8 feet of close overhang, needs a pan flashing.
Outwater Plastics and JamsillGuard make and sell pre-made panflashing. The important feature is the lip up the back, and on the ends. A pan flash captures the leakage from the unit above and diverts it outside, so it cannot get down or in.
Doing copious amounts of caulk under the sill, or using a membrane like Grace Vycor flat across the base and up the jambs a little, still is no substitute for a pan flashing.
Without such flashing, all you can do is caulk and caulk and caulk. And then do it some more, in future, when the first caulk application fails.
Good luck!
Edited 10/25/2005 11:37 am ET by Stinger
I appreciate the info
Let me take the door-pan a step further.
I have a double door (one side fixed, one side hinged) in a home on the Oregon Coast, with the doors facing the SW...right into the throat of coastal storms. Yes, I used one of the plastic pans, and yes it catches the inevitable leaks that I couldn't stop no matter how much I caulked the exterior. But if I had it to do again, I'd do the following with the pan:
1. Seal the floor under the pan with a polyurethane
2. Tack down a ripping along the back (inside) edge of the threshold, so it raises the back of the pan slightly
3. Put #30 felt over the floor, lapping it over the top of the top edge of the exterior shingles/siding and up the sides of the door frame, but under the exterior felt.
4. When putting down the pan, I'd dispense with the model airplane glue they provide, and glue the overlapping sides (the pan comes in 3 pieces, as rough openings will vary somewhat) using either polyurethane or silicone adhesive. I'd use it generously. And never yield to the temptation of nailing the pan to the floor or wall. If holding it in place is important, I'd use a broad head roofing nail an nail into the framing just above the edge of the pan so the nail held holds it in place.
Then the door can leak through its construction joints as much as it wishes.
BruceM
We used a version of pan on this double door.I of course hadn't heard on the primer or sanding so I dulled it down with 220 today and primed it on the hinge with (sorry I had the primer name wrong) Zinser primer (latex, indoor/ outdoor, metal or wood/ stain block). It must be pretty great stuff if it really does all that.It went on pretty good really. Tomorrow I'll put on the finish coat.Thanks for the input. I should have been asking a week ago.
Well, I was exaggerating, but I thought her attitude had a little "air suckin' and eye rollin'" tone - hey, maybe it was ME. I WAS a little miffed there was nothing mentioned about finishing in the brochure or the 12 language installation instructions. It looks pretty slick (in texture) to me, and I know things don't stick to drywall buckets (unless you don't want them to). I have said a couple of times that the doors already look pretty good.
I thought her attitude had a little "air suckin' and eye rollin'" tone - hey, maybe it was ME.
I doubt it was you; it's getting nigh-on improbable to find a customer service rep whose job description actually includes answering substantive questions with substantive solutions. The normal procedure is to get rid of the customer as fast as possible, using any tactic that works. Referring someone to a website's FAQ page has become real popular in the last few years.
After all, real customer service costs money. And who wants to spend money if they can avoid it?
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Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Every time I see a Dilbert comic strip I remember my old job and think how glad I am to be out of that! I worked in a cubical and everything!
After I started working as a carpenter, one time we were expected to be on a roof in sleet and one guy wouldn't do it. I ran up the roof and began working. He asked if I was crazy. (Well, I am, but that's beside the point.) I told him after sitting behind a desk in an office for fifteen years, I was happy to be out no matter what the weather! (Though it was pretty stupid and dangerous to be on a roof in the sleet! I was younger then! Gosh, that was about 9 years ago!)
Every time I see a Dilbert comic strip I remember my old job and think how glad I am to be out of that! I worked in a cubical and everything!
You can get a free 'Daily Dilbert' sent to you 5 or 6 days a week by e-mail from http://www.dilbert.com
Save the ones you like to your drive as images; the e-mailing you actually get is really a URL in fancy clothes, and the server they use dumps the links after about 3-6 months or so.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Thanks for letting me know about "Daily Dilbert." I used to cut out and mail the one in my newspaper to the gang where I used to work in Muskegon. Finally a former co-worker said, "You can't fool me, I know it's really you who does "Dilbert". Unfortunately, I suppose there are many, many people out there who are "Dilberts". (Not that it's bad to be a Dilbert, just bad to be subjected to the work environment he has!)
Scott Adams, the author of Dilbert, wrote a serious textbook on management a while back, illustrated liberally with Dilbert comic strips. Harvard University spec'ed that book for one of their MBA courses....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
(Sorry Fonzie, had this reply to dinosaur by mistake)
You didn't mention primer (or did you). I today called and got Zinsco indoor/outdoor latex primer then ACE Royal something great paint. They thought there was no problem and we do like Ace paint.
Fonzie,
No I didnt mention primer. But per Thermatru, the doors I have that are fiberglass are paint ready and dont require primer.
I have a feeling your doors are paint ready as well, but the primer certainly will not hurt.
One thing you can do is find a local distributor (a dedicated window/door company) that carries Masonite products and ask them. They should be helpful.
Good luck and let me know how things turn out.