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I bet at least half the time I shut off the water to something, the shut off valve leaks either right away, or after I turn the water back on. This is valves for toilets, sinks, and especially the whole house. Happened again today. Is it me???
Rich Beckman
Replies
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For the whole house valve, it is because someone used a $4.50 3/4" gate valve instead of springing for the big bucks ($8.95) for a 3/4" ball valve. Positive on, positive off, easy to see if it is on or off by looking at it. If full-bore, no pressure drop when open (unlike gate valve). Takes about 1.37 seconds to open or close, unlike cranking endlessly on a gate valve. I use them as shutoff on every line leaving the utility room. -David
*It could be you, Rich. I recommend a few sessions of personal counseling to rule out or confirm the possibility.Are these old valves? Or new ones you just put in?What part of the valve leaks? Around the stem? Tighten the packing nut. At the IP or compression connection? Clean the threads, more teflon tape or good pipe dope. At the seat? Change the seat, they do corrode, replace the washer. Particulate matter, sediment, scale? Flush the lines before replacing te valve(s). Bad valve from the supplier? Take it back. Dollar three eightynine per dozen, on sale? Don't be so cheap, buy some decent hardware.
*About half the time is correct, I allways carry replacement shutoffs,ie sweats, 1/2 pipe my favorite and comps for when nothing shuts off. ball valves on all main supplys. plumbers allways shortchange on shutoffs like thier work will last forever!!!
*Rich,
View Image © 1999-2000"More than any time in history mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction. Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly." Woody Allen
*I learned the hard way that not all valves are created equal. When I built my own house I went valve crazy, I had shutoffs for every conceivable situation, kinda nice except I got sucked into the cheap mode. Unbeknown to me I bought made in China crap, within two years most of them failed, two of them cracked in half and almost flooded the second floor. My advice would be to spend the extra money and buy USA made ball valves.
*Rich,I've definitely had that happen on many occasions. First they're seized, then when you loosen it up and try and close them they don't close all the way, and then when you open them back up they soak your trousers in three places. I don't use those stupid chrome shut-offs with the plastic oval shaped handles anymore (the kind that are supposed to be used for sinks and toilets). Now I just put in brass stop-valves, making sure to disassemble them before I solder them in. Mind you, they don't look great, but I usually find ways to hide them so they're out of site. I agree with using the above-mentioned ball-valves, though I have used smaller ones that leaked on me (these might have been a cheap brand though). I guess the heavier-duty ones would work better anyway.
*Shutoffs spend 99.9% of their time open. The washer doesn't get a chance to mold itself to the valve seat.I've never seen a shutoff that doesn't leak. If it bothers you open and close it about 50 times and it will work fine. No worries, mate, hopefully it isn't shutoff for long, right?
*Joe,ROFLMAO!! That's a great story!> The first thing my father did was light up a cigarette and give my a blank stare.LOL!Thanks,Rich Beckman
*Ralph,These are old valves. Usually they seem to leak around the stem, and that's the case with this one. Tomorrow I will try and fix it rather than replace it (lots of old rusty pipes with twice the number of necessary elbows).I make it a habit to not buy the cheapest item when given a choice, but I suspect that one has to hunt a bit harder to find the quality ball valves. I intend to start looking harder tomorrow.Thanks.Rich Beckman
*Really enjoyed the story Joe.If i don't see it on the back page of FHB some month soon Andy ain't doing his job.joe d
*Joe,
View Image © 1999-2000"More than any time in history mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction. Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly." Woody Allen
*It's not you Rich! As said before....I now carry a shut-off to replace any that I'll touch thru the job...fully expecting them to leak. They've sat open for years....no reason to expect them to work now! And ....have extras because about 20% of the new "good" ones leak too! I too like to have both solder and compression on hand. And I never go to the main first....because that's my "last resort"...and that doesn't always work either! I did Joes trick here at home a few months ago. Not on the main.....but as I went to turn the shut off...I turned to the midnite assistant(Cathy) and said....ya know, I really should dig out all those old x-mas decorations first.......she asked why....and I said because they are burying the main shut off.....and when this leaks I won't be able to get at it fast enough........that was right about when I turned the handle and it came off in my hand as water shot up at the ceiling and back down on my head......I shot across my basement quicker than I ever had...started tossing big plastic containers everywhere...and got to the main....and for once it didn't leak! Jeff
*Rich, They are all JUNK! New or old, it doesn't matter. David has the right idea. The first guy that invents a reliable shutoff patterned after the ball valve will become a zillionaire.
*Joe,Great story...I'm still laughing.That's something I would do except when my dad showed up, he'd already have a lit cigarette (not sure I've ever seen him without one) and he would have laughed a little then said "you big f'in dummy".Pete "still laughing" Draganic
*Rich count your blessings if only half of them leak. Most mere mortals aren't so lucky. In fact I can't remember the last time a shutoff valve didn't leak when it was cycled.Joe, thanks for starting off my day with a belly laugh. But what is "chance"ing a valve? :)
*chance is a typo for change I would thinkPete
*Pete: No kidding :)
*Oh, duh....... sometimes you never know on this board.
*I had a buddy named "Chance". He was an Aussie so we didn't question it. We all hung out at the local bar. Everytime he'd go and try to pick up a new chick....we'd all start singing....."All we are sayy-inggg.....is give Chance a piece"! I think The beatles woulda been proud. Jeff
*That rates: :) :) :)
*I saw a chrome, 1/2" supply shut off that was like a ball valve at the commercial plumming supply in Ann Arbor (commercial supply = only open when you are supposed to be at work yourself). It looked wonderful to me, as we all know the compression type won't seal after 15 years in the 'open' position. This thing looked EXACTLY like the typical under counter thing on the outside. Cost about 2~3x.Not available in any of the regular hardware stores yet (I've been looking).Now I've gone and forgotten the maker's name - the same people that make all the other ones, Baltimore Casting, or Brass something. Jeez, I feel stupid now that I've brought it up...Anyway, the fella at my favorite hardware store said that he'd looked at them a few months ago and decided not to carry them because they were not really ball valves, but 'barrel' valves and doubted that they'd really be worth the extra money...any body know what I'm talking about? I was so excited when I saw that one, and kinda disapointed at what my hardware guy said (though he could be wrong).Next time I've got to work on any plumbing at my place, I may take time off work just to go back to the commercial supply place and buy some to find out for myself!(replacing the main shut off with a 1" ball valve was the greatest thing ever, I think. I never touch any of the other shut-offs any more unless the job's gonna take longer than a few hours)
*Ok, maybe I don't know waht I'm talking about, but...I have owned two houses in Dallas and one in San Antonio (one built in the mid 70's), and all three had ball valves at the meter and that's how we shut off the water when necessary. I think they were ball valves...only takes a 1/4 turn from full open to full closed.
*I put some ball valve shut offs at the sinks and stools of a house I just plumbed. Ordered them from my local Ace hardware.Brand name was B&K. They called it Bestop. Part # 490-102HC (Ace's part # 4169819)It was a 5/8 compression by 3/8 compression right angle stop, although they had a straight version too.Seem to be a quality unit and cost $5.79 ea.
*Yup, Brass Craft (went home and checked)thanks Jeff!I'll look into the B&K ones now too.thanks TLE!
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I bet at least half the time I shut off the water to something, the shut off valve leaks either right away, or after I turn the water back on. This is valves for toilets, sinks, and especially the whole house. Happened again today. Is it me???
Rich Beckman