We’re planning a small addition / kitchen remodel in the near future. The current kitchen footprint is under an area with an 8 ft. ceiling that can’t be cost effectively raised / vaulted due to the truss structure (according to the Architect).
We’re planning to expand the kitchen about 6 feet into what is now the den. Problem is the den has a vaulted ceiling, and we have to build a soffit for the 6 feet of cabinets that will extend into the den space. Other than converting the vaulted ceiling to an 8 foot ceiling like the rest of the kitchen, anybody have any other ideas? The room is about 16 feet wide with fairly shallow pitch in the vaulted ceiling (see the attached photo).
The architect suggested a tongue (for lack of a better word) with shelves attached to it that would mirror the new island below it. But after doing a mockup in foam, we discarded that idea. It cut up the space too much (30″ soffit, 42″ shelf, 48″ wide tongue, 42″ shelf, 30″ soffit) and made it look far more comtemporary that we liked. We’re thinking of using small wood beams with an open gable end to terminate the kitchen space, and perhaps hanging an iron “pot holder” apparatus from the beams?
Any other ideas would really be appreciated.
Replies
I think I understand your problem: essentially the intersection of the den ceiling and the kitchen ceiling that forms a gable-looking end needs to be extended more into the den? Assuming that is the case, what about installing fake timber trusses in the den and carrying that look right to the intersection of the two ceilings? In other words, you create the look that you have a timberframe with exposed trusses and the gable looking end where the two ceilings meet is trimmed out with the "timber" truss. You could eliminate the bottom chord of the triangle for the other "trusses" if it looks too crowded.
J Painter
You've got the picture. Our concern is how to make the 6 foot extension of kitchen appear connected to the kitchen without having to drop the vaulted ceiling to an 8ft ceiling. If I understand your suggestion, it would be to put beams along the vaulted ceiling for the entire space? Do you think this would have the effect of making the additional 6 feet of kitchen space appear to be part of the Den instead of the kitchen? We were thinking of adding beams only in the that 6 foot area and hanging a rectangular iron pot holder rack (4 ft. x 6ft) over the 6 feet of the island that will protrude into the vaulted space. What do you think of that idea?
Thanks for your input.
Hmm. Sometimes you just need a napkin and a pencil to get the ideas across. My suggestion was, in fact, to extend the plane of the kitchen ceiling for the extra 6 feet and then use the fake triangular timber trusses to trim out the gable looking end of the kitchen area and to use those same fake trusses every four feet or so in the den. This would give the impression that the den was framed in the timber style and that the kitchen ceiling was just added to the bottom chord of the trusses. The fake timbers could be made of smooth boxed out pine, or real timbers, or whatever you want.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you'd rather not extend the plane of the kitchen ceiling but instead add beams or a fake truss across the area from which to hang kitchen apparatus.
Stepping back for a moment, I'd say these are the real issues:
-- Extending the plane of the kitchen ceiling will, of course, make the room feel more defined at the expense of the feeling of being open. The dimensions of the den and kitchen would be helpful to know here. Is the den small so that it will look awkward to have a short stretch of vaulted ceiling?
-- Whatever you do, it is critical to have the trim details of both rooms matched and intertwined in order to avoid the patched-on look. In rooms that have no dividing wall you really need to consider both rooms as a unit. That's why I suggested the fake trusses which might help tie the two sections together. However, it might look really stupid, too, if the den is a small room and the trusses would be overbearing.
Maybe some more dimensions or other pictures would help. You should try standing in a corner and taking your glasses off or squinting till things are blurry then imagine various options within the space. Sometimes just continuing a paint or wallpaper scheme is all it takes to have two sides of a big space play nice together.
J Painter
J -
Sorry about that, certainly would have been easier if I'd attached the floorplan. Here it is...
Note the existing space stops at the bump-out at the bottom of the drawing. As you can see, the total distance from the end of the existing 8' ceiling to the end of the addition is almost 30 feet. If we were to extend the 8' ceiling, that dimension would be reduced to about 24' feet. My wife does not like the idea of extending the 8' ceiling (increasing the closed in feeling), and I don't either, but I want to make sure whatever we decide to do is pleasing to the eye. One concern I do have if we're forced to extend the 8' ceiling is that it will end over the existing french door (see the circle with the ! in it), perhaps causing another problem. I'm not sure how that will look? Do you think that we would need to move that 9' french door? Thanks for your input.
Terry
Terry:
Hmm, again. It is much clearer with the drawing! :-)
Well, take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm just a local-yocal, but here is my take: Structurally I don't see any issue with the existing french door and an extended ceiling, but it might look a little funny having it end right over the door. However, I wouldn't move the door just for that reason. That issue aside, I might be inclined to extend the kitchen ceiling since the den is a good sized room. However, since both of you seem to want to avoid that, there has to be a way to make the existing ceiling work.
If you like the look of the fake timber trusses (or that general idea) then I would say to trim out the end of the kitchen ceiling with the complete triangle, and decide on the fake trusses every four or six feet in the den if they should or should not include the bottom chord of the triangle. Then you could just hang the kitchen cabinets from the wall and use trim on the top. Your wife could put knick-knacks on the top of the cabinets and you could spend the rest of your life dusting them! ;-) The island would span both ceiling areas, but that isn't necessarily a problem.
If you just bag the timber idea, then I still think you could just hang the cabinets on the wall and be fine. In this case, I would pay special attention and be extra creative on the lighting and the paint scheme. It might be worth hiring a lighting expert to help you create more attention-getting lighting than the hi-hats shown on the drawing. Lighting can be used to tie things together quite well.
If this is really bugging you, go buy some 3 mil plastic sheeting and tape it across from wall to wall where the ceiling would be extended. Live with it for a day and see what happens. Sometimes it's easy to just over-analyze this stuff-- go with your gut.
J Painter
If you have the June/July issue of FHB, #164, turn to page 92 and see if that idea would fit into the open look you desire to maintain.
Removing the ceiling rock above the island and extending the truss look into the den area would give the whole island an extended focal point and plenty of space for the fan(s) or additional special effects and task lighting. Top it off with 2 or more skylights as Mike shows in the article for free daylight. You can leave the end of the well that extends into the den open if it helps relieve the closed in feeling. while still extending the soffit to the sides to accomodate the cabinets.
You might also consider installing only base cabinets to keep the open look. I think the 8' pantry at the end of the run would severely compromise your open look. It's like putting a wall right next to a window with a great view. Note those french doors. There appears to be more than enough storage space with out those sections. Extra countertop area would be better.
In addition, there is nothing that says you have to run a bottom chord clear across the room, in a straight line as you depict with the new ceiling line. Picture a bow wave or a compound curve. Draw a line on your plan about 1/4" out from the end of the curved island, follow the island curve around both sides and then reverse the curve, ending up at the intersection of the wall and EXISTING ceiling line. Another point of interest as your ceiling curves to follow the island curves below. Since it would be more like a suspended ceiling than one needing to be structural you could use lightweight steel studs and the self-curving channels for fabrication. Just a litle extra care needed to bend the drywall to shape (or plaster it). Would also tend to lessen the closed in effect of a full ceiling.
Edited 6/23/2004 2:50 pm ET by Ralph Wicklund
Ralph,
Thanks for your ideas. Unfortunately, I don't have issue 164 of FHB... Taking your suggestions, I removed the 8' pantry (not sure if the wife will go long, but we'll see...) and put in the curves you suggested. What do you think? Is this what you meant?
Taking your suggestions, I removed the 8' pantry (not sure if the wife will go long, but we'll see...) and put in the curves you suggested.
Ralph is definitely on to something. I've got 4¢ to toss in.
What I'm thinking may need a bit of 3d modeling, but I'll try words first. Float a ceiling over the island, call it 24-27", and make it concentric to the end of the island. That portion would get built on a 2x frame and be about 3 1/2" thick. Supporting this would be a thinner inverted "leg" portion, say around 14", also rounded and concentric to the island end. That helps reduce the bulk in the existing space.
Now, we could leave off a furr down by the wall over the other new upper cabinets. I suspect that might not work, though. I'm thinking that bringing the kitchen ceiling from the wall to the ceiling across to the new island ceiling would work. Especially if we did not bring the vertical wall with it, but instead, had it step back about 2-3' leaving a "feature shelf" (archy words, ain't they fun <g>?) Since the kitchen "falls" back to where the outside wall angles back anyway, the step and the round "prow" over the island "make sense," if you will.
Now, for my other 2¢, get the fancy "pantry" shelves added to some base cabinets. You get a better storage yield with shelf units less likely to be balky. A traditional pantry has to be about 24" deep to get all of the wooden swinging shelves in it. But, as that depth, and also 84" or more tall, you will lose stuff into the back where no one has time nor patience to go get a ladder, or swing everything out of the way, to go get or clean out. (Not that I have bitter experience of this or anything.)
A good significant other compromise is to go with a 42-48" tall, 18" deep unit with roll out racks. Put a wood top to match on it and use a matching upper cabinet with glass doors (use some "hutch" sides to connect the two). "Best" pantry I ever saw was 36-38" wide, and 21" deep, with 4 roll out units inside. It had two 18" tall, 12" deep "garage" units with roll-up tambour doors, and then finished with a 'regular' upper. It was slick, it would hold tons of stuff, all at reasonable reach and access.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Let's see if this chicken scratch overlay on your plan works.
I shrunk that down a bit so people with slower connections could take a look.
CAG -
Thanks. Didn't realize it was so big until I got to work where of course I don't have any software to resize the image!