I am building a barn home with an attached faux silo as a DIY project. The barn has a traditional arched roof, as does the short “walkway” that connects it to the silo. I am installing metal shingles right now, and am uncertain about how to properly flash the curved valley between the arched barn roof and the arched “walkway” leading into the silo. I have already installed WeatherGuard over the area, and made a valley using short pieces of it. the rest of the barn roof has been covered with tarpaper. The metal valley flashing that I purchased with the Decra shingles is too stiff to bend, and kerfing it would destroy its waterproofness…so I am stumped! Are there specific products that would flex around this curved corner, as metal flashing will not work! Any ideas appreciated, thanks.
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What about crimping the leg of the metal flashing you have? You can buy the crimpers made for round ducting (makes one end fit into another)? Or... it' snot as pretty but just as effective you can use a pair of needle nose pliers to grab the leg of the flashing and twist, keep making twists along the length to get the curve you want.
Cool project BTW.
A resize for the dialers.
Do it like this.
These are duct / downspout crimpers 5 jaw, they also make a 3 jaw.
View Image
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Do it like this.
He's trying to make 24 or 26 ga steel valley pieces fit a curved valley. There's not a thing downspout crimpers will do for him.http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
Right, I couldn't get my hands on a pic of valley or steps on that computer, shoulda left well enough alone.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I have already installed WeatherGuard over the area, and made a valley using short pieces of it.
There's your answer. You'll have to figure out what size pieces will fit and cut your valley into those size pieces or if you have some flats in the proper color, make the proper size pieces.
I typically work with copper which is much easier to form and can be soldered. You're going to have to rely on caulk at some point at the top of the valley.
http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
I'm confused... You can't step flash it?
Here's an example of what the valley will look like. This is a little different situation, but you should get the idea.
View Image
http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
Wow, nice work! I just wanted to clarify- are these straight pieces of copper flashing, or are they curved sections (and if so, how do you bend them into that shape??). I can't quite tell by the photo. The radius that I am dealing with is so sharp at the top of the arched walkway, that I had a difficult time getting the Weatherguard to conform to the curve. I can only imagine that metal step flashing would be worse yet....
Thanks for the info,
Shawn
Looks like Grant hasn't seen this post, so I'll fill ya in, cuz I installed them. They are about 10" long and conform to the radius quite well, they often need a bit of a hand tweak to get them to lay flat.
Easy with copper, not so easy with anything stiffer. Just adjust your length to what will lay without feathering up and allow for a generous overlap.
We often have to make them slightly trapazoidal to keep things neat and tidy.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
They are straight valley pieces. You have to cut them down into shorter pieces (a series of chords) as the radius decreases. You have to figure out what the longest chord length is that will lay to the valley curvature without rocking.
Step flashing will go up the sides of the radiused roof until that junction becomes a valley.
My biggest concern about your project is not being able to solder your material. You might look into getting a sheet of stainless steel to fabricate your valley pieces from. Should be compatable with your metal shingles. You might also want to fabricate a channel like Sphere showed to receive the ends of your shingles and solder that to the valley on the curved roof side so water coming down the large plane doesn't run under the shingles on the curve.http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
Okay, the comments lead me to two more questions:
1) How do you I know what valley materials are compatible with my steel shingles? I understand there are issues with dissimilar metals, but how do I know what is acceptable? Can I use aluminum flashing, or must it be steel-on-steel?
2) Do the step flashing pieces need to be soldered to one another? In the photos, I see that some are, some aren't...
Since I am in nothern Minnesota, this roof will be subjected to considerable snow accumulation, especially at the valley location where it is sure to build up. I want to be sure it is watertight!
thanks again,
Shawn
1) How do you I know what valley materials are compatible with my steel shingles?
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=96452.1
Can I use aluminum flashing, or must it be steel-on-steel?
For the top of the radiused area, you need a material that can be soldered and is compatible with your shingles which are coated steel and probably have some zinc in the coating. Copper can be soldered, but is not compatable with zinc. Stainless steel is the closest solderable material I'm familiar with. Terne II might be another choice, but would have to be painted.
For the step flashing, you should use the same material as the shingles. The company that makes the shingles should sell flats in the same colors as the shingles. What kind of coating is on the shingles?
2) Do the step flashing pieces need to be soldered to one another?
"Step" flashing is the piece used to flash a verticle plane to the roof. There would typically be one piece of step flashing for each course of roofing material where it abutts the wall. It would not typically be soldered.
"Valley" flashing is used to flash between roof planes that adjoin one another. In normal situations, valley would not be soldered. In your case, the radiused area gets flat at the top, so water will dwell there after it runs down the major roof plane. That area is also going to be in the shade in the winter, so you need a material that can be conformed to the curvature, but can also be made watertight.
http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
I spoke with a rep from Decra this morning (shoulda done that sooner!). Without telling me exactly what coatings are on these steel shingles, he said that I can use any flashing material other than copper or lead. I also learned that they sell flat stock material that is covered with the same stone coating to match my shingles, which could be used for cutting and bending my own valley and step flashing.
So my remaining question is regarding the top pieces of valley flashing that meet at the peak, which you recommended to make out of SS so that it could be soldered for waterproofness. Could I use the Decra material instead and seal it with caulk? I see other postings talk about caulking rather than soldering- is this acceptable? If so, what type of caulk would be the best in terms of longevity/durability?
thanks again,
shawn
Could I use the Decra material instead and seal it with caulk? I see other postings talk about caulking rather than soldering- is this acceptable? If so, what type of caulk would be the best in terms of longevity/durability?
Yeah, you can caulk it for the short term. But it's going to be a constant maintenance item especially in your climate. It might be acceptible to some, but not to me. You've purchased Decra shingles presumably on the premiss that they'll last a long time, then your're picking the most vulnerable spot on your roof to rely on caulk. If this area is beyond your skillset, you might consider hiring a pro to do this part. It'll be much more expensive to redo it later as well as repair interior damage when the leak comes.
I'm partial to Geocel 2300 for applications like this. I'm sure others will chime in with their favorites. http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
Where's Dale when we need him? LOL
That looks to be a greater than 12/12 major roof, so velocity is in our favor , but as you noted, the snow harbour might come into play.
Ya blew me away with the Stainless and soldering...I still need some edumacation it seems.
BTW, Montrose awaits. Dale can have at the flashing, painters be done on main house, early next week ( weather permitting). And the gutter WILL be a GO.
Are you planning on slate repair and replacement? Seems they would like to remove the Moss on the existing...I have no interest in doing that,but if Dale is up an a chicken , I'll spray with bleach and call it good.
I'd like your input on that cleansing situ. And possibilties of copper control strips at the ridge?
I'll be home today in shop, home fone in pocket, sil vous plait.
EDIT: What a place for a mistype! I meant if Dale is UP on a chicken ladder, not implying that he IS a or could be a chicken, my keys are sticky on this..really they are..LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 11/14/2007 10:29 am ET by Sphere
Dale's finishing up some small stuff today. If the weather is clear, he should be back tomorrow. I'll let you know in the AM.http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
Is the garage ready for gutters, yet?
Bleach will kill the moss, but not remove it. Probably have to pressure wash, then add some copper by the ridge to keep it off.http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
Garage woulda been , but this rain set us back. I was thinking the chims and stuff. Just got power back on here, been down 3 hours.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Just wanna interrupt this thread to say that's real nice work, Grant. That's a great look.
Hey? You must run into this often.
Are the dome intersects membrane? Is/are there a metal backing?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Not too often, but some coming up. I haven't used metal backing. Introducing new materials brings in attachment issues and differential expansion/contraction. Stick with elastomeric products where possible, with membrane expansion strips, cant strips, etc. Got one connecting to a shingle roof in a few weeks, and unsure of the detailing where they join. So I'm watching here and taking notes.
Thanks - I made it and Duane and Dale installed it.http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
when you build round... you get to learn many new skills....
metal can be made in in shape or form needed.... your step flashing just needs to be curved and sloped... the amount in each section will depend on how much you want to cover with each piece... the less you want to cover the easier it will be to fabricate... if you can live with getting only 2-3" coverage per pc of step flashing then it won't be too hard... if you want 6-8" then the only way is joining 2 parts... which will require soldering... not a real hard job since most pieces will be the same.... part a. and part b. joined...
cardboard first... make a template/ pattern with cardboard & tape... til you get the fit you want... transfer to metal... or make in cardboard and take to a good sheet metal shop and say "i need 20 of these in 16ga galv.
good luck looks like a cool project
p
Im suprised I'm the first to mention this. There must be some autobody guys on the board.
You need a metal strecher. Like this http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pc-12785-589-3115-metal-stretcher-shrinker-combo-unit.aspx?s_kwcid=metal%20stretcher|571269429&gclid=CMCf_a753I8CFQlxOAodfyzg9Q
This one is a small unit (first I saw on google) but you can strech the metal in amazing ways with one of these. They are for making pieces to replicate body panels, for fixing rusted parts etc. I saw a guy make a custom set of fenders for a car with a bigger one and metal hammer poundy thing (that's the technical term)
Go to your closest hot rod shop and have them make one for you. They could bend a pice of flashing to the exact shape in no time. Then you would have a one piece flashing.
If you need to step it, have them make two and cut them in alternating pieces.
Or like the farm I grew up on you could just install a floor drain below the silo :)
You need a metal strecher.
That is a neat tool (I have both a shrinker and a stretcher), but it won't help in this instance. It'll only handle a flange of about 2" and he needs about 10"-12" on either side of the valley.
edit: And the other tool your describing is a "planisher". Either of these tools would also destroy the factory finish on his metal.
http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
Edited 11/15/2007 6:00 am ET by seeyou